LISTEN TO THE EPISODE:
APPLE PODCASTS | SPOTIFY | TOPFLOOR.COM
[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor, episode 269. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/269.
[00:00:13] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now, your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.
[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Sara Bacon started out studying psychology, fully intending to spend her career helping people live their most whole and fully expressed lives. Instead, she took a scenic route through hotel front desks, marketing, and PR until a personal reset and a lifelong habit of planning entire trips around one gorgeous room sparked a big idea. Today, Sara is the founder of Opulist, a curated visual guide to the world's most beautiful hotels, restaurants, and bars, searchable by the thing that matters most to design lovers, the vibe. Today, we are going to talk about the power of beautiful spaces in travel and hospitality, but before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.
Call button rings…
The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you have a question, you can call or text me at 850-404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Debbie. Debbie asks, "I have an app idea, but I'm not sure where to start. Any suggestions?" Well, Sara, you surely have a suggestion for Debbie. Where should she start?
[00:02:01] Sara Bacon: I think the best place to start is just knowing already that there's something that you love and want to create in the world, and not getting overwhelmed by all the steps that you have ahead. Because if I were to think of everything I had to have done to create Opulus, it never would've come to fruition. So I would say my biggest tips are finding people who are smarter than you in the things that you do not excel in. And the good news is the time that we're living in now with technology really, really does make creating apps so much easier. And so start with something small and simple, and see what you can do on your own, and play around with it. And then invite other people in to help execute your vision if you need to. But I think the most important thing is your excitement around creating something that you love, because that will be what fuels you to keep moving.
[00:02:50] Susan Barry: Well, that is extremely helpful advice. Take us back to the beginning. What did you think you were gonna be when you grew up? Certainly not an app developer. And how close did you end up getting?
[00:03:03] Sara Bacon: I'd say my first dream was probably to be a mom and a stay-at-home wife, 'cause that's what I saw my mom doing, and she did an incredible job at that. And so I didn't have, actually, a lot of lofty career aspirations as a child. I had things I loved to do, but I really just envisioned myself being a mom. And then I'd say around, like, junior high school, I did have the vision of wanting to, or the desire to be a therapist, specifically a marriage and family therapist. At that time, it was because I had had really positive experiences with one and saw the impact that they could have on healing people and helping to create more connection, and love, and wholeness, and all of that. So those were the goals. And then how close I got to that. So it's two-part, because I actually will say that not being a mom at this point in my life is what caused me to have the space and the openness to explore what else my life is supposed to look like at this point. What else can I create with my life? Not that you can't do both, but I think this wasn't the path I had envisioned for myself. And so that, over the years, caused me to kind of really slow down and ask some bigger questions of, like, "What if I'm not here to do those things, at least right now? What else am I here to do?" And then with that also came, I'd say, kind of the meta response to my desires to why I wanted to be a therapist was to help people live these whole very authentic lives. And so Opulous to me is kind of the answer to that for myself. So this is to get to live a life where I'm creating work that I deeply, genuinely love and that inspires other people, hopefully, and is something that is really fun and exciting to me. So that would be my definition of my dream life, at least for now.
[00:04:53] Susan Barry: Well, I mean, as someone else who doesn't have children, I consider my businesses my children. And Opulist is quite a baby to have. So what was the moment that you decided it was time to stop working for somebody else and go out on your own, build something that you could call your own?
[00:05:18] Sara Bacon: It was about a little over eight years ago. I was working at my last corporate job, which was marketing and PR for a digital marketing agency. And I think it was kind of a slow build over time, but I did have a very definite moment. I remember where I was sitting and where I was journaling, where I just kind of had this, "I'm done with this. Like, I know that this isn't for me. I know that this isn't how I'm supposed to be spending my one precious life." And it was harder because, at times, it wasn't a bad job. I think if you're in, like, a really miserable situation, that's kind of an obvious this-isn't-good-for-me moment, but a lot was okay, a lot was good. I loved the people I worked with, and we worked with cool clients. I didn't hate going to work every day, but I did have this overarching sense of kind of like, "I just would rather be spending my time somewhere else or doing something else." And it felt like I was robbing them of an employee who could be providing the best of themselves, and I felt like I was robbing myself of that experience, too. So, I quit without a plan for what I was doing next, and it would be another almost four years till I thought of Opulist from that point. So I bounced around and was on quite a little journey in that time. But I'm very grateful that I had the bravery to choose a different path for myself and to know that there was more for me out there.
[00:06:42] Susan Barry: This is certainly none of my business, but I'm interested in those four years of bouncing around. Were you trying things that you were drawn to, or were you doing survival jobs so that you bought yourself some time to think?
[00:06:59] Sara Bacon: It was a little mix of both, but I was very intentionally trying to find what it was that I was meant to be doing. So it was frustrating, 'cause I felt here I was trying to be open and do something meaningful with my life, and to me, that kind of looked like helping other people in a certain way or some form of, like, coaching. I mean, human design came into play for that, which was a big step into building Opulist. And that was really valuable for me. But it was a lot of question marks of I was really trying to figure it out. So it was a lot of searching and doing part-time jobs, contract work, trying things that I was interested in, but also just having jobs to support kind of that journey that I was on to figure out what I was meant to be doing.
[00:07:40] Susan Barry: Well, it took four years, but then you had, would you call it, like, a light bulb moment, a brainstorm, or did it evolve over time?
[00:07:48] Sara Bacon: It was a light bulb moment. Yeah, I know exactly where I was. I know how it evolved to get to that point because of, like I said, kind of being clear on my human design and just being really clear as to the things that light me up or that energize me when I'm working on them or doing them, which later I would connect. It's like, so many of my favorite things, like being in pretty places, taking photos, staying at nice hotels. Like, stuff that I wouldn't have ever equated to a career, just what I thought were kind of obvious preferences for some people. And then I also practically was doing The Artist's Way when I came up with the idea for Opulist, and so it was during both the week that you are supposed to take a media fast, so you're not consuming any outside content. So for me, that was like no podcasts, no social media. They say no music. Like, it's a lot. Like, no reading. And then I was on one of my artist dates, which is you just go somewhere that's inspiring to you or exciting by yourself, and I was at Disneyland that night, and I know exactly where I was when the idea came into my brain for this.
[00:08:49] Susan Barry: Oh, that gives me chills. Yeah. I always hear about people doing the artist way, but I've never done it. And it sounds like I don't want to because I cannot not read for an entire week. I would die.
[00:09:02] Sara Bacon: It was a challenge, but there obviously is something to clearing space. You maybe don't have to go a full week, but there's something to it. I think we consume so much that, like, to kinda create a little bit of space to let whatever other voices come in, it can be helpful. But yeah, it also has to call to you, so I totally get that.
[00:09:19] Susan Barry: Where did the name Opulist come from?
[00:09:22] Sara Bacon: That was not a light bulb moment. It was actually named multiple things before that, which I won't even share 'cause I knew I wanted to create a new word that didn't exist already, and so it just was weeks' worth of brainstorming, word clouds, bouncing ideas off of people and friends. And then it ultimately, yeah, I think I was trying to write down a lot of my favorite words, things that I felt like described what I was doing, and the word opulent kept, or opulence, kept coming up. I love that word. And then so I wanted to do a play on that, and I didn't even try to marry the, like, opulent list at the beginning, but it did make sense to me that this is kind of like an opulent list of places. So Opulist is what it became. Yeah, so that's where the name came from.
[00:10:08] Susan Barry: That's so good. I love it. I love that name. I think it's brilliant. Well, for someone who hasn't seen it, and especially someone who doesn't get your magnificently excellent content on Instagram, describe Opulist, what you're trying to do.
[00:10:23] Sara Bacon: In its simplest form, it's a search site for beautiful places to stay, eat, and drink. So I imagine, like, Yelp was created with a very niche like, segment, where you're just focused on the interiors and design of places, and it's also something that would actually be beautiful and fun to use. And so another, like, comparison could be the Michelin Guide, but focused on the interiors and design of locations. And so this is for people who care about their environments. They are drawn to beautiful places or good design, and that is a deciding factor in how and where they choose to spend their time or go on a trip. And so I wanted to curate those locations into one place and make it easy for people to look through the imagery for it so that they could make that decision on their own based on that instead of searching a million different places.
[00:11:18] Susan Barry: So what makes a space worthy of Opulist? Like, do you make all the calls, or do you have a, I don't know, checklist of requirements that they have to fulfill? Just tell me everything. Give me all the details.
[00:11:32] Sara Bacon: So it is a little bit of an art versus a science, but we do have a list of requirements of kind of what a place needs to pass more or less to make it onto the site. Right now, I am the primary person who does the research and the decision-making on that. Eventually, the goal is, of course, to have a trained team of people who are covering different cities and can vet every place in person too. But I'd say the most important factor is relativity to where that location is. So our list in Miami is gonna look entirely different than our list in Wichita, Kansas. And it has to be, like, what is the most beautiful or design-forward place for that city and that location? And is this a place that you would seek out or go to based on the feel and the interiors and the design of it? So that's kind of the deciding factor because beauty can be subjective to a lot of people as well. We definitely don't focus on one design type. I tend to be drawn towards highlighting the more unique non-chain spaces, but I also am a huge fan of, like, if there's a Four Seasons in a city, and it is beautiful and stunning, that deserves to be on the list too 'cause it's someplace that you feel really good in its presence. I'd say the biggest deciding factor is more so where it's located and how beautiful it is in comparison to locations around it.
[00:13:05] Susan Barry: Do the hotels have to be luxury hotels, or are you all over the place in terms of scale?
[00:13:11] Sara Bacon: Definitely not. That's another factor that I really enjoy about Opulist is that there's such a range of budgets, for lack of a better word, or just different price points because I think not all luxury even qualifies as beauty. I think sometimes it can feel very sterile or cookie-cutter for some people. And I think that there's some really gorgeous, stunning places that are, like, refurbished motels, for instance, that have been reimagined and are filled with art or just incredible design or unique details that you would go out of your way to find or spend time in. So it is definitely a range, a range of luxury to more off the beaten path or more unique places.
[00:13:56] Susan Barry: I love that. Do the businesses know that they are going to be featured in advance? Like, do they have to agree to be on the site, send you their photos, or is it more of an award, like, "Congrats, you're on Opulist"?
[00:14:11] Sara Bacon: It's more of a selection on our end, though we do receive lots of submissions from places now that I have a lot of relationships with PR places, agencies that cover hotels or restaurants, and so they'll submit locations, or a location will submit themselves, which I am a huge fan of. And so we still have to review it. I look through their imagery, their website, their social media, whatever, to kind of get a feel for the interiors. And then, yes, they've made known that it is featured on Opulist. And the photos are a mix of things as well. I love to use original photography as often as possible, so we have a lot more original photography now on the site and definitely on our social media. So whenever we can, it's my photos. But the service that I say that we're doing to these businesses is that, a lot of times, they don't do the best job representing themselves online, so we will scroll forever to find, like, a decent photo of an interior when it's a place that I know is beautiful and stunning. And I'm like, "You are short-changing yourselves because you're posting all these photos of your menu items," or maybe it's a bunch of reels. And I just know for myself, I wanna know quickly, like, what is the vibe of this place? What is the design of the rooms? What does the pool look like? And so that's kind of, I'd say, what sets us apart is that we're really going in and pulling curated photos and imagery for these places rather than, like, a Google API where it's just pulling in general or user-submitted photos.
[00:15:43] Susan Barry: Understood. I think that we would probably agree that the travel discovery business, like creating an app or creating a website around discovery and travel, is really tricky. You hear about all of these great ideas, and then they sort of fizzle, or it's hard for them to catch fire. What do you think the industry maybe still hasn't figured out about travel discovery?
[00:16:15] Sara Bacon: I think something that's tricky that we are facing in today's environment, especially, is how to balance conscious creation and intentionality with what you're doing with speed and monetizing and keeping up with the business models or keeping up with the world. I mean, especially with AI, it's like everything can be automated and fast-tracked so quickly. But with that, there can be the loss of the human touch or, kind of, that drive to monetize everything. And so to me the challenge is, and what I see people have a hard time with, is they love these sites to begin with, whether it's a Condé Nast Traveler or Travel + Leisure or Expedia or whatnot, where it's these search engines. But then, in the midst of growing and scaling and needing to take money from advertisers, it loses some of its integrity, and people question, like, "Is this an actual review, or has this been bought?" Or is this listicle pulled from an AI search or something, or is it someone's actual genuine thoughts and reflection on the industry or on this thing? So I'd say that's a personal reflection, too. It's something that I'm trying to balance, is I really believe in building and creating a company that feels like it has the human touch to it and really explores deeper and more intentional topics, but also can scale and make money in today's world.
[00:17:51] Susan Barry: I know. It's the hardest question. I feel like I wanna hold, like, a week-long conference about that exact subject. It comes up for me constantly just on this show. There's so much of that sort of rush to monetization that people think that guests pay to be on Top Floor, which could not be further from the truth. Or the first question someone asks when they find out that I host a show is, "How much money does it make?" Which five years ago would've been so, like, unheard of that you would just straight-up ask somebody that. It's wild to me. Well, we like to make sure that our listeners come away from every episode of Top Floor with some really tangible tips to try, and I have one that I'm selfishly asking you for myself. So it is this: What has building an audience on social media taught you about what people respond to? What stops a photo, in your case, of a hotel or a restaurant or whatever it is. What is it that makes somebody stop scrolling and go through your entire carousel?
[00:19:05] Sara Bacon: It's a great question. I also am very passionate about studying the behaviors of people on social, as someone who's been on Instagram since the beginning. And so what I have found, and specifically I'll just talk about what's worked for us with Opulist, 'cause we do have a great community on social. I think in today's current landscape, it is using some form of text over imagery to start because people need to know what they're getting themselves into. We're inundated with beautiful photos all the time, and so, yes, has a gorgeous photo on its own stopped me in my tracks? Of course. But I think that's also very personal to what people resonate with and what imagery does for them. So I would say twofold is, like, making it very clear what people are gonna get from that post, so knowing, like, is this a review of a hotel, or is this a meme carousel that they'll be entertained by from the beginning? And then the second part is that people are drawn to stuff that raises their social capital. And so they, I think, whether it's someone commenting on a post because they've been there and they want people to know that, whether it's them sharing a meme because it makes them seem funny or cool, or saving a post that they're like, "I wanna have this suggestion for my friends the next time we go out." Like, I want this, I wanna take photos in this place and have that on my social media. So I think it's helping people feel cooler, have a better life experience. And so I think Opulist is something that helps people do that.
[00:20:39] Susan Barry: That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I feel cool when I look at your posts. That's perfect. Not every hotel or restaurant or cocktail lounge has a big renovation budget that they can throw at getting on Opulist. So what are some of the small, smart ways that a business can make their space more beautiful and more memorable?
[00:21:06] Sara Bacon: I think the biggest and easiest one is lighting, lighting, lighting, and I will die on that hill. I think it's so clear how much it affects people, and it's such an easy thing to do, and it's twofold because not only is it the lighting of the space, so like whether that's making sure it's light and bright if that's the feeling that you want it to create, if it's like a brunch spot or a coffee shop or something, or if it's a nighttime spot, like turn the lights way down. People don't wanna be in bright lights. They want it to be dim. But the secondary part of that is really interesting light fixtures. I know those can be expensive, but they don't always have to be, and I think there's something about that does just seem to be a through line of really beautiful places, is that there's like a really interesting light fixture of some kind, and it can be a lamp on the table or it can be a gorgeous chandelier or something that's hanging that's just kind of a centerpiece of some kind. I also just think good service goes such a long way in, like, making people feel really special. And so it's not a design tip, but I think if you can make people feel like they're in a luxury environment by the way that your staff treats everyone that comes through the door, or you're providing personalized attention like that, is people are gonna remember that. And maybe like one thing that causes surprise and delight, like the famous phrase from hospitality, is how someone can walk into the space and see one thing? I mean, a poor example of this, 'cause I think this is overdone, but like a neon sign that has a fun saying on it. Like everyone's gonna photograph that. Everyone's gonna wanna take a picture of it. You're gonna remember it. It's gonna look cool on your social media. But something like that. Maybe it's something unique to your business that's like you have this one thing that really stands out and makes you memorable for people to either want to go visit, or to take a photo of, or to enjoy while they're there and remember that when they walk away.
[00:23:02] Susan Barry: I couldn't agree more. And you saying that light fixture thing has thrilled me, because it is in my top three of what I care about when I go to a hotel. Because it's one of the few places left where people can really do art in lighting. Do you know what I mean? It's absolutely my most favorite thing. Well, we have reached the fortune-telling portion of our show, so you have to predict the future, and I will let you know if you have it right. What is a prediction that you have about the future of hotel design?
[00:23:38] Sara Bacon: I think I'm gonna have to go with a selfish answer of at least what I hope is gonna be true about the future of hotel design, and that is the trend of renovating more historic properties and renewing a space that already exists. I think that there is not only the beauty of, like, breathing new life into a place that is either outdated or maybe dilapidated or, like, no longer serving a function in a community and making that brand new, but also just the added layer of interest when there's, like, a historic undertone to a place and that you can, I don't know, create newness out of an old motel or a restaurant that was there and just have it be a new place. I also think the focus of, like, turning hotel lobbies into really cool third spaces for people and for the community, of recognizing that it's a spot that people in the community would maybe wanna spend time in, or it's like the living room and heart and soul of a hotel. And so if you can create this really cool, beautiful living space there, that is something that is gonna be really attractive to both hotel guests and non-guests. And another one is, this is bringing cultural rituals from other places into the US, at least. But, like, things like bathhouses that are more like a spa, but in a different way that is a gathering place or, like, a place of leisure and restoration and disconnect from, like, our phones and technology. I think I see that becoming more of a trend in building into hospitality spaces.
[00:25:24] Susan Barry: Oh, that's cool. I hope so. I hope you're right. Well, if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about how travelers discover where to go, what would that be?
[00:25:35] Sara Bacon: Okay, I'm gonna give a little bit of a deeper woo answer kind of. But I think it's putting the decision-making back into the traveler and empowering people to really listen to their own intuition and get clear on, like, what they love about travel or a space so that they can make the decision, and they're not influenced by an influencer or a paid ad somewhere. And that my hope and dream of creating Opulist was not to be the authority on all of these spaces. It was to provide people with options that they could look at the visuals and say, "Oh, that space really resonates with me because that's exactly the mood I'm in to go for on a date tonight, or to go hang with my girlfriends." I love the thought of people using their own inspiration, or their own desires and preferences to be inspired by where they wanna go. And so yeah, I would say it's not really practical, but I hope people can listen to themselves and what it is that they're wanting out of an experience, and then let their tools work for them to find that, and let them make the decision-making.
[00:26:50] Susan Barry: I don't think you're completely off in terms of it being realistic because I'm noticing this, like, sort of undercurrent backlash against we-don't-wanna-do-anything touristy sort of mindset that people bring to travel. Like, there's all of this content and thought leadership out there like, "Hey, guys, this place is popular because it's cool, not because you're being for- So sort of that idea that you should do something because you want it, not because either you're a tourist or you're too cool to be a tourist. Does that make sense what I'm saying?
[00:27:32] Sara Bacon: 100%, yeah. That's an argument I go over in my head all the time of kind of, like, how to separate those two. But yeah, I'm all for, like, go for what feels right for you and try to ignore the other voices as much as possible.
[00:27:46] Susan Barry: Okay. Well, before we tell you goodbye, we need to head down to the loading dock because that is where all of the best stories get told.
Elevator voice announces, “Going down.
[00:28:00] Susan Barry: Sara, what is a story you would only tell on The Loading Dock?
[00:28:03] Sara Bacon: Okay. So if I am allowed to be, like, a little salacious, I do have a hotel story shenanigans that stand out to me that I witnessed one time. For protection of the property, I will leave their name out of it, but let's just say it is a very well-known historic hotel in Southern California. And I was there with a girlfriend, and the pool is in the center of the hotel, and a lot of the rooms face inward to that. So it's kind of in the courtyard. So when we were walking back to our room, you can look down at the pool, and at night it's dark out, but the pool is lit up. And so we happened to be walking back to our room, and we saw this couple, I guess, we didn't know who they were, near the jacuzzi, and then we realized things were progressing in a romantic direction. So we were like, "Hmm, I wonder where this is gonna go," also because it is fully out in the open for everyone to see. We were not peering into someone's room. We were not looking into a private pool. This was a very public space. So sure enough, our room was, like, right above the jacuzzi, and what unfolded was a full-blown pornographic sexual situation that we watched.
[00:29:22] Susan Barry: Are you serious? Oh, no.
[00:29:25] Sara Bacon: Never in my life have I witnessed something.
[00:29:26] Susan Barry: I mean, maybe it was great. I don't know how you feel.
[00:29:30] Sara Bacon: We were entertained and obviously felt a little guilty that these people were not in full privacy. But at the same time, I mean, what they were doing was technically illegal, I'm pretty sure, because they can't be public. And so then we started wondering if this was an inside job because how was there no cameras that are like, maybe they paid someone to turn off a camera. But the funny part of it, and the irony, was that we were also waiting for, like, a DoorDash delivery, but we were also being observers. And so we were out on the balcony by ourselves, and a security guard walked by us, and he was asking, he was like, "Are you girls staying here? Can I see your room key?" So, of course, we're like, "Yeah, this is our room right here. We were just waiting for something." And the whole time we wanted to be like, "Sir, you have bigger fish to fry than two girls that are-" Just right over there, you couldn't, like, no one was stopping them. And so, yeah, I still to this day wonder if they ever got caught, 'cause the gates to the pool were closed, too, so I don't know if they had to jump out. But we did get a stay and a show, if you will, at that hotel.
[00:30:34] Susan Barry: That is amazing. Sara Bacon, thank you for that excellent loading dock story, and thank you for being here. I know that our listeners are going to rush to the App Store to get Opulist, and I really appreciate you riding with us to the top floor.
[00:30:50] Sara Bacon: Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.
[00:30:53] Susan Barry: Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/269. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all-around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen, and your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.
[00:31:29] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.