Transcript: Episode 242: Dog Treat Explosion
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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor with Susan Barry, episode 242. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/242.
[00:00:13] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.
[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Emily Goldfisher is a seasoned hospitality communications leader turned media entrepreneur. After studying at Cornell, she built her expertise in travel and hotel PR, including a decade leading communications at Loews Hotels. Following a move to London, Emily transitioned into journalism, where she uncovered a critical gap, the underrepresentation of women in hotel industry leadership. This insight led her to co-found Hertelier, a media platform dedicated to amplifying women's voices and hospitality, now celebrating its fifth anniversary. Hertelier has grown into a powerful platform for storytelling, research, and advocacy. Including a recent partnership with Forbes Travel Guide to Benchmark Women's Leadership across Top Tier Hotels. Today, we are going to talk about systemic change in the hotel industry, but before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.
Call button rings…
The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at (850) 404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Sherika. Sherika asks, do you have any tips for businesses that can't afford PR representation but have stories they wanna get out there? I love this question for you. I also have thoughts, but you obviously should go first, Emily.
[00:02:17] Emily Goldfischer: So they have stories but don't have a budget. That is a great question. My tips would be think about your goals with PR like what would help your business move the needle? And then think about specific publications that you would want see your company in. And then really read them, figure out if it's a podcast or if it's a YouTube show. See who the producers are. Really understand how they cover things, and then craft your story in a way that you can do a very individualized pitch to them.
[00:03:03] Susan Barry: I think that makes a lot of sense. It's almost you have to trade out sweat equity for dollars in this case. So rather than blasting something out across the wire, you have to really craft something that's personalized. Just from your perspective for hertelier, when you get pitches, what do you think about pitches? Like I get pitched all the time and I'm so much more likely to get excited about a pitch if it comes from the person who wants to be the guest versus their PR firm or their marketing folks or something like that, because I know what that feels like to be like, look man, I don't have a PR person, or I don't have a marketing team, but I have a great story to tell. What do you think about that when you get pitches?
[00:03:48] Emily Goldfischer: Honestly, I look, I come from PR, so I always look at the PR pitches and I appreciate what PR people do. But yeah, people reach out to me. I feel like the ones that are most interesting are the ones where like, you know they've read Hertelier, or they've listened to Top Floor. It's when people just throw you like their generic story that they think is awesome and you're like, well, okay, maybe it is an awesome story, but it's totally irrelevant to the people who read Hertelier. It's not gonna happen. And then I also write for Luxury Travel Advisor, and I would say the same thing. Why is your property important to the luxury travel advisor reader? So that's high-end travel advisors who are selling trips that average $1,800 a night and then, trips that often would be over six figures. Know what the readership or the audience is before you try to pitch.
[00:04:53] Susan Barry: Yeah. I love it when I get a pitch for like dental implants or something. Like, what? What are you talking about? No, thank you. Well, how do you think your early experience in hotel PR shaped your understanding of the industry differently than doing a tour of duty and operations would have?
[00:05:15] Emily Goldfischer: That's a great question. I feel like working in PR really taught me how to look for and spot trends in the travel industry. So I think, yeah, it was like a very broad base look at what's interesting to consumers, but then also what's interesting to media, what makes a good story? And I think where that then translates into, I did work in hotels for a bit, throughout college. And I think what's important to marry in both of those things is that sometimes a great PR idea is operationally impossible. And so you have to be really sensitive to, okay, is this a great idea? Then, is it also something that you can actually deliver in a meaningful way? We've had tons of great ideas, and then only some of them really work in the hotel operations and sometimes ops people are like, okay, this is impossible. If you think we're only gonna sell like five of them, we'll do it. But, if you think we're gonna get a lot. But of course, I was working at Loews in the time before social media really took off. And now you read stories and hear stories about how sometimes things will go viral on TikTok and then really the operations can't cope with it. So it's quite tricky today.
[00:06:52] Susan Barry: I think you're right. There's also sort of the flip side of that, which is the continuous nay-saying that, no, we can't possibly execute that. And you're like, brother. I don't want you to, I just want this for a story. Like that's all we're doing is trying to make a little noise here. So talk about leadership lessons from your time at Loews. I know that that was incredibly formative for you and a really sort of special part of your career and your life. What are some of the big things that you took away from it?
[00:07:27] Emily Goldfischer: Well, I worked at Loews Hotels from 1999 until 2010, and it had a great leadership team. Actually, Jonathan Tisch, he’s a legend in the industry. He is quite visionary. He had gender equality in the C-suite at that time. And of course, when I was working there, I didn't really realize it. Like I didn't have the self-awareness of, I knew there were, you would go to a conference, and there wouldn't be as many women around. But I didn't think about the fact that it really made a difference in the day-to-day workings at Loews hotels and also what the environment was like. And I would say the leadership lessons I learned, I worked for icons of the industry. Charlotte St. Martin, who was one of the first female hotel GMs, and she was the head of operations for Los Hotels and the head of marketing. Early on, before there were many others, and Sherry Lavarone, and then, of course, Nancy Mendelson, who is my partner at Hertelier. So I had these incredible female leaders and mentors and, to be. So, again, I was super lucky, but of course, I had only worked in two places. So before joining Loews, I worked at a PR firm, which again was run by women. And I also had tremendous bosses and mentors there. So I just lacked the self-awareness of that this wasn't normal to have incredibly smart, talented women all over the place because that was what I had seen in my career.
[00:09:12] Susan Barry: Yeah. Well, it's funny to me too because my very first hotel, I had a woman GM, and so I had no clue that that was super unusual. Like my first hotel was the ideal, platonic ideal of a hotel in terms of being a woman in leadership, but I had no clue that it was unusual. It's just ironic.
[00:09:32] Emily Goldfischer: Yeah, I feel the same.
[00:09:34] Susan Barry: That's interesting though, because if you were sort of in, you were wrapped up in a company that had parody in the C-suite and all that stuff, was there a particular aha moment that led to you starting Hertelier, or, I don't know, did things change so that you were like, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not as good as I had it before.
[00:09:58] Emily Goldfischer: Well, what happened really was more about my personal circumstances. So my husband was offered a promotion to move to London, and at the time we had two small children, they were four and six, and we were like, we both love to travel. So we were like, yeah, let's, we'll move to London. This you have to remember, 2010, it was two years before the Olympics. The city was really booming. The economy here was fantastic. So we took the chance, and I just thought, well, it was gonna be a big effort for me to settle my family and all that, and we were only meant to stay for two years. So my thought was I'll just flip to the other side and start writing, and I started writing for Luxury Travel Advisor. And then when we moved back in two years, I could go back into PR, which I did love working in PR. And then we ended up staying because we really liked living here. And so, as I was covering luxury travel and meeting the hoteliers and executives. I started to be like, where are the women? Where are the women? And then, when I would meet these amazing women, I was like, why aren't people writing about them? Why don't I know about these women already? And then of course the pandemic hit. And I was chatting with Nancy, and I was like what do you think if we did a media platform that was really just targeted for women in hotels? I mean, granted, it's a very small niche, and maybe I should have been a bit broader.
[00:11:40] Susan Barry: It's not that small, though.
[00:11:42] Emily Goldfischer: Yeah, exactly right. So we were like, yeah, well, you know, we kind of knocked it around. I think I wanted to call it hotelier, and Nancy was like, no, you should call it hertelier. After telling her, I was like, okay.
[00:11:56] Susan Barry: Nancy was right.
[00:11:56] Emily Goldfischer: And it was sort of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's always right. And I had to figure out how to make a website. So there was a lot of learning in the beginning, but of course, it was a pandemic. So I had plenty of time. And then the other thing that was great about starting in the pandemic was that people also had plenty of time to speak to me. So we did at that time.
[00:12:19] Susan Barry: And to read all your articles.
[00:12:21] Emily Goldfischer: Yeah. So it kind of took off right away. And now, as we've just celebrated five years. We've done almost 850 articles. And, yeah, so we have quite a body of really interesting content, and there's a lot of great lessons. And for women at all stages of their careers. So we're really proud of all the content that we've created. We're now looking at different ways to repurpose that as well. And, we do a free newsletter every Sunday, which I know you're a fan of. Thanks for that. So that's where we are with Hertelier. And it's just been a joy actually to meet so many women across the industry and hear about their career journeys and learn from them.
[00:13:17] Susan Barry: Is there anything that surprised you along the way about how Hertelier, how your platform has evolved?
[00:13:23] Emily Goldfischer: You know what's interesting is like when I started at, I thought, oh, it's gonna be really easy to connect with readers, but I might run out of people to talk to. And actually, it's been the opposite. Like, there are so many women who are just doing incredible things in hospitality, and building an audience has been harder. But, we've passed 10,000 followers on LinkedIn, and the newsletter keeps growing, and we do have a solid audience. But that was surprising to me. Like, I don't know, for some reason, I just got that all backwards.
[00:14:04] Susan Barry: That's interesting. Well, one of the things that I have observed, I mean, I've been a reader probably from as close to day one as you could be without having known you then. And I think one of the things you do so well is partnerships. You put together events and do partnerships and conferences and all that stuff. And I know you have a recent partnership with Forbes Travel Guide. Can you tell us about that, the research you did, and what you uncovered?
[00:14:35] Emily Goldfischer: Yeah, we partnered with Forbes Travel Guide because we really wanted to move beyond just the anecdotes and the stories we were hearing to get some real hard data on women in leadership in luxury hospitality. Of course, 'cause of my background, Hertelier does skew towards the luxury market. But we have covered all aspects, but we do tend to skew towards stories around luxury, hospitality, and the women doing interesting things there. But we've spent years telling these stories, and we just wanted to understand better the patterns behind those stories. And we were especially interested in what helps women reach senior leadership, what gets in their way, and what that says about the industry overall. And so we surveyed 99 female leaders, and it gave us a meaningful snapshot into the lived reality. And, it's confirmed some of the things we thought, it's not just a visibility problem. There are a few system challenges.
[00:15:40] Susan Barry: Well, I know one of the things that was pretty striking to me is the fact that 19% of the hotels in that Forbes travel ecosystem are led by women, which I think is a shockingly small number. And maybe it's because of reading Hertelier that I have my mental pictures skewed. But it seems like I know more than 19% of luxury hotels are led by women GMs. Do you know what I'm saying? So it was very surprising to me to see that number. What do you think that really says?
[00:16:16] Emily Goldfischer: I think what it says is there's room for improvement. However, I think 19% is probably accurate of the industry overall. And I say that because I've also interviewed CEOs at a core and at Hilton. And when I've asked them about the percent, it was like they get excited if in a particular region, of course, it's all very regional too, so you have to realize that Forbes is global. In certain regions, like in Europe or the US, you may do better. So it could be that's why your perception is that it's better, but they've told me when they're getting around 30% in luxury hotels, that's quite good. And that's the goal. So the goal now, and I think IHG and a core both have come out with not to get to gender parity as the first step, but like the first step was to get to like 30, 40%, and that would be in the next few years. And I know that they're really trying, because I hear from them and I hear from their HR departments about how they're trying to look for more women to fill certain roles. At the end of the day, too, I want people to realize that when they're doing this, it's always about who's right for the job. It's still a meritocracy, but there are also ways that you can make the job descriptions and things more inclusive.
[00:17:53] Susan Barry: What do you think are some of the myths? I think you maybe just touched on one, that by trying to increase the number of women GMs, you're somehow root lowering your standards, which I think we both secretly would wanna punch a wall if somebody said that to us. But what about other myths? Are there any that sort of still hold sway when it comes to how women are represented in hospitality leadership?
[00:18:18] Emily Goldfischer: I think one of the biggest myths is that motherhood is the main reason women don't reach the top.
[00:18:25] Susan Barry: Oh, that's so interesting. Say more.
[00:18:27] Emily Goldfischer: Yeah, I mean, it's just simplifying it too much. Of course, when women have children, that can cause them to have to do some pivots or rejigger their career path for a certain amount of time. But what we've learned is that women without children, or women who are child-free by choice or they also face bias. Single women face bias, married women face bias, younger women face bias, and so do older women. There's also ageism. So I don't think it's like one particular life choice, it's just a wider set of assumptions about women and leadership. At the end of the day, it's like the numbers are the numbers, and that was again looping back to why we did the research, which is that we have to just keep focusing on the data. And if we really wanna make change, we have to measure things and try to keep making progress based on what we know to be facts.
[00:19:33] Susan Barry: A hundred percent. Maybe you can base this on data, or maybe you just have a gut feeling, but I'm curious, do you think hospitality is better, worse, or about the same as other industries when it comes to gender equity? I don't feel like I have a good read on that, 'cause I've been so immersed in the hotel business for so long.
[00:19:55] Emily Goldfischer: I feel like it's a mixed bag. The optics aren't good with hospitality, only because you see so many women that enter the industry. So at the entry level, it's like 55% is of the workforce is female. So, it tends to look stronger and more diverse at the entry level, and then even up to the director level. If you were to look at the recent study from the Penn State School of Hospitality, there is equity at the director level. It's just kind of like, as you get up the ladder to the VP, and then really it's more about the C-suite and the CEO level, that's where it really drops off. So if I were to compare it to other industries, it's really hard for me to say, but I hear and read about similar statistics and of course, when we look at, let's just say, the Fortune 500. 10% of CEOs are women. So, hospitality's kind of in line with that, to be honest with you. So every industry, I think, could do better.
[00:21:18] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with some practical and tangible things to try, either in their businesses or their personal lives. For women navigating their careers in hospitality. What are some ways they can advocate for themselves?
[00:21:37] Emily Goldfischer: One practical piece of advice is really to keep track of your accomplishments regularly and not wait for your annual review, and just to keep reminding your boss. Hey, this is what I've done. This is it, working towards my goals. Is there anything I can do differently? So I think again, that's not just for women, it's for anyone. So being clear about your goals, know what you're contributing. And then, try to quantify your impact wherever possible. I think that's a big thing. And another thing that, like, when we look at some of the gender disparity, and particularly in hospitality, which of course is an industry that requires a lot of presence, there are only certain roles that you can really do remotely. It's like, can we look more into what this person's impact is, versus like, are they around all the time? So I think, however, you can make a case for yourself by showing impact and making a difference in the business. And another thing I think that's important for women in hospitality is to really take ownership of a P&L and to have that in your back pocket as well. And of course, it's helpful if you nurture relationships with mentors and sponsors, and if there's other people advocating for you.
[00:23:07] Susan Barry: What can companies do, and I mean, beyond the nominal mentorship programs that everyone likes to trot out during Women's History Month, to create more equitable career pathways? Are there specific things you've seen people do that you're like, man, if everybody would do this?
[00:23:28] Emily Goldfischer: Yeah. I think what we were talking about before is like this pipeline paradox. You have women at the entry level, but they're just not making it to the top layer. So we need to rethink how we define leadership and how you evaluate people for roles, looking carefully at job descriptions, promotion criteria, and then assumptions about what kind of background someone needs to be considered ready for something. We see a lot of data, not specific to hospitality, but like, who's getting put up for stretch roles? Of course, you've heard the data, the statistics like a man will apply for a job if he is got 30% of the skills and a woman will only do it if she's got a hundred percent. And a lot of the vice we've heard from CEOs and women who've made it to the C-suite is like, you have to be more nimble in terms of putting yourself out for stretch roles, also taking lateral moves, and things like that. So I think the onus shouldn't be on the women, it should be about companies trying to support women to do, make these kinds of moves that will help them, then move up and be open to different pathways and broader definitions of leadership potential.
[00:24:57] Susan Barry: For leaders who are listening right now. Women, men, they, them, whoever it is. What is an immediate change that they could make that would have an outsized impact, like in their office today?
[00:25:15] Emily Goldfischer: Well, put more women forward for promotions. Yeah, that would be one. I think also some examples of how offering some flexibility and then also programs that are gender neutral, but also can be helpful. So, for example, Rosewood just did a global gender neutral parental leave policy, which I think is amazing. 16 weeks of fully paid leave and recognizes multiple paths to parenthood, including adoption and surrogacy. Another big issue, and a report just came out about this. I don't have the data from Mom's first, but the support was childcare. And I know IHG had piloted a program that was like subsidizing daycare for employees. So I think that there are a lot of things like that, other ways now with technology. Can you offer shorter shifts, or can you do job sharing? I think that flexibility is really a great thing that people could start doing more of.
[00:26:30] Susan Barry: Well, we have reached the fortune telling portion of our show, so you have to predict the future, and then I will let you know if you got it right. What is a prediction that you have about the future of women's leadership and hospitality?
[00:26:44] Emily Goldfischer: I'm a super optimistic person, and I do think that we will continue to see progress, however, probably more slowly and perhaps more unevenly than we would like. One of the things that was really encouraging from the Forbes Travel Guide research was that when we asked them, asked the women that we surveyed. What was the momentum? How did they feel the momentum was? And people gave it a 3.45 out of 5. So, the perception like yours is that we are making progress. There's energy around it. I think the other thing we learned from the Forbes study was that 80% of women say that it was their personal mindset and resilience was what is what made them successful. But again, and I think we've talked about this before, is like, well, if you ask any successful person, like, why are you successful? They're gonna say as well, my mindset.
[00:27:45] Susan Barry: It was all me. I'm amazing.
[00:27:48] Emily Goldfischer: Yeah, exactly. And then, another 65% said it was ambition and determination were really essential to them reaching senior roles. So I think we're gonna still see progress, but we'll see. So I'm hopeful.
[00:28:07] Susan Barry: Okay, folks, before we tell Emily goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.
Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”
[00:28:18] Susan Barry: Emily, what is a story you would only tell me on the loading dock?
[00:28:23] Emily Goldfischer: Okay. I'm a fan of Top Floor, and this is actually one of my favorite parts of the conversation that you have with your guests. So I've really been thinking about this and one of my favorite stories was when I was at Loews, actually in 1999. One of the first things I implemented, and that kind of ties back to your very first question, was that we rolled out the Loews Loves Pets program. And a fun fact, Kimpton likes to take credit and that they launched the First Pets program, but it was actually us at Loews.
[00:28:58] Emily Goldfischer: And Charlotte St. Martin was a big dog lover. So we had a room service menu for dogs, and we also had treats in the mini bar. And I remember a GM calling me and telling me this story that he had a guest that came down in the morning, very irate because he came back to his room after a night of being out, drinking, went to the mini bar, and ate all the dog treats. And that was ghosting to the GM, and was complaining. It was like you need to like comp my room 'cause I ate the dog treat and he's like, they're clearly marked with paw prints on 'em and dog stuff.
[00:29:52] Susan Barry: You say dog treat you, idiot.
[00:29:56] Emily Goldfischer: I mean, it literally said love pets with like paw prints all over it. So that's one of my favorite stories. I really wanna be selective there.
[00:30:07] Susan Barry: That's amazing. Well, Emily Goldfischer, thank you so much for being here. You can't stop laughing. I know that our listeners learned a lot, and if they haven't already, they need to subscribe to Hertelier, and I really appreciate you writing with us to the top floor.
[00:30:25] Emily Goldfischer: Thank you, Susan, so much for having me. It's been a pleasure and a joy to be here.
[00:30:31] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/242. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all-around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen, and your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.
[00:31:06] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.