Transcript: Episode 224: Bridge & Tunnel Walk

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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 224. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/224.

[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.

[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Steven Rubin decided early that hotels would be his world. After graduating from Washington State University's hotel school, he moved to New York City to join Marriott, cutting his teeth as an overnight manager in a 600-room property before pivoting to revenue management. Steve helped open and oversee Kimpton Hotels up and down the East Coast, an era he credits with shaping his leadership style and went on to roles across asset management operations and hospitality tech. This year, Steve became CEO of Collared Martin Hospitality, the new management company behind Far Away Hotels, which is an independent destination-driven brand expanding from Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard to Sag Harbor and Jackson Hole. Today, we are gonna talk about launching a new independent management company and brand. But before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.

Call button rings…

The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at (850) 404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Cameron and Cameron asks, if you could only choose one, which discipline is the best preparation for a hotel general manager? Food and beverage, rooms, finance or commercial? I think you mean sales, revenue, etc.? What do you think, Steve? You are biased. 

[00:02:18] Steven Rubin: I'm gonna say that I'm a little biased. Yes. But you know what? I think that it really depends on the type of hotel you're looking at. So when you're talking about luxury, I will say that I think that an F&B background for luxury GM is key. And it doesn't have to be completely there, but I think that when we're talking about service, the details on service on the F&B side is amazing. So that does lead you to be able to create those experiences and that service level for a luxury property. I think that commercial does have a great impact. I would say that commercial on the marketing side is phenomenal because of the detailed strategic side of things and understanding consumer psychology. Of course, operations is important too. 

[00:03:10] Susan Barry: I agree with you, but I don't think people would ever elevate a marketing leader to a general manager role.

[00:03:18] Steven Rubin: I've seen it happen. I actually have a very close friend, Amanda Parsons Launi. And she's went through sales and marketing and became a general manager. But I do think that's a special person, right? Like it's also somebody that has some operational background and then got into sales. And then, maybe similar to me, right? They cut their teeth on some operation stuff and then got into something else and then have come back around as an operator. 

[00:03:47] Susan Barry: That makes sense. Well, speaking of cutting your teeth, I can only imagine how wild overnight shifts were in New York in the late 90s. What did it teach you about composure and guest recovery that you still use as a CEO? 

[00:04:05] Steven Rubin: So this was obviously my Marriott days. And one of the things that Marriott did such a great job is training their new managers. And I'll never forget, I went down to Bethesda and I did this whole Stephen Covey training. And the thing that they taught, that really stuck with me and has stuck with me today, is a quote from his book that is seek first to understand, then to be understood. And I use that being on the overnight. So when you're talking about when I was an overnight manager in 1999, we would relocate anywhere between 20 to 40 people a night. So, you know, there was a lot of opportunities to allow somebody to express their feelings and first seek, Hey, I hear you. However, I don't have a room. We would give options. Marriott did a great job. It was like three different options you'd give somebody that you were relocating. I would say that I got a lot of intense responses from guests, so I quickly cry. 

[00:05:20] Susan Barry: An overnight shift, for people listening who don't know, it starts at 11:00 PM, so it's not like 6:30 at night. You're relocating people. It's midnight and later that you're relocating people. 

[00:05:31] Steven Rubin: Oh, these are people that have had long days of travel.

[00:05:33] Susan Barry: Yes. 

[00:05:34] Steven Rubin: Yes. So I also learned very fast how to forget fast and fail forward. Otherwise, I would never sleep at night. And then it also taught me, this is kind of an odd one, but being on the overnight, it teaches you how to stay awake. Like you know this industry, you work long hours. And when you're working the overnight, you definitely have times where it's like, okay, 3:00 AM, I just wanna take a nap. It's like, so you find methods, whether that's getting up, walking around, whether that's getting outside for fresh air, and I've definitely used that moving forward, too. 

[00:06:12] Susan Barry: That's funny. You know, I think when I was younger I could stay up sort of indefinitely. I could stay awake forever, but I could not wake up early in the morning. And now I'm completely opposite of that. I could wake up anytime in the morning, but my ability to keep my eyes open past 9:30 is slipping away. Maybe I needed to walk outside or do a night audit shift. 

[00:06:36] Steven Rubin: It definitely helps.

[00:06:39] Susan Barry: Well, I think I probably already know the answer to this based on the number of relocations you had to pull every night. But what made you switch from front of house to the presumably calmer realm of revenue management? 

[00:06:55] Steven Rubin: Yeah. So, because I was also in my early 20s, part of this was I wanted a social life living in New York City. I had just started dating my wife and working the overnights and trying to date was not ideal. It was great from a standpoint of I could go out, I couldn't have go out for dinner and I couldn't have a drink. So there was that part. 

[00:07:23] Susan Barry: That's a literal buzz kill. 

[00:07:25] Steven Rubin: A little buzz buzzkill. Yes. And I really wanted to tap into my analytical and strategic skills. I had taken revenue management at WSU and it was fascinating to me. And also Swiss Hotel at the time. I mean, it was a powerhouse for revenue management. So you're talking about some of the trailblazers in the industry for revenue. Michelle Woodley, Keith Harrison, Kathleen Collen, the tools that we had available. Back then, I dreamed about having today. So it was just like beyond the fact that I was offered an opportunity to go from, like you said, an 11:00 PM to 8:00 AM job to a 9-5 revenue job. I was tickled with the opportunity, and it was great. It wasn't easy. This was 2000, so I was there from 2000, 2004. I was in a dorm. 

[00:08:28] Susan Barry: That's very early days for revenue strategy in hotels. 

[00:08:32] Steven Rubin: Yeah. And also, it's like you think about the major challenges in New York City, those days, right? Like financial crisis, recession 911. I look back at that decision and it truly did change the trajectory of my entire life. 

[00:08:52] Susan Barry: I know another important sort of milestone in your career were your years with Kempton. Can you talk about maybe the rituals, the habits, the things that you took from that experience that have stayed with you?

[00:09:08] Steven Rubin: We could do an entire podcast just on my time. I think some of the biggest things is lifelong friendships. Kimpton had so many great things about it. So the board of Collared Martin and the co-founder and CEO of Blue Fly Capital is Jason Brown. I met him while I was at Kimpton. Our CFO at Blue Flag, Whitney Dizon, I met her. So there were those lifelong friendships that you just can't change. And it's because you're in this experience with people and you're building something, because at that time we were really building Kimpton. It was in a growth phase. So there was also this culture that has stuck with me for my entire career. And it was a culture really based around leadership and that they put as much time investing as you as a person and you're making sure you have a high emotional IQ as they did in growing you as a professional. 

[00:10:17] Susan Barry: Your company is focused on sort of high-barrier-to-entry leisure markets like Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard. There's not a lot of land left there. Why there when a lot of folks are looking for these sort of undiscovered or tertiary cities to expand? 

[00:10:39] Steven Rubin: A lot of it has to do with our theories on why people travel and where travel is going. So, color Martin is really committed to curating these intentional and harmonious experiences. We fully believe in experiences. We also believe that part of that is embracing the soul of the destination. So that all ties into play when we're looking at, “Hey, what destinations are we looking for?” So if you're looking to do a trip and you want an experience like these destinations, like who doesn't want to go to Jackson Hole Ski? Who doesn't want to go to Martha's Vineyard and get away and escape and be on this incredible island that's got so much history and beauty and everything, Nantucket, Sag Harbor. So we embrace these destinations, they're hard barriers of entry but we know that that is what travelers are looking for and we love the challenge. Ironically, I'd say too, you look at Michelin key criteria, so the Michelin key criteria really aligns nice to what our theory was. And we have the theory before Michelin came out. So it's nice, we're very excited about the fit, but it's things like the deep connection. It's architecture and design that speak to that destination and celebrate it. Its experiences. And then of course it still has the service, which is a barrier of entry, right? And personality, character, all of that, authenticity. We use that word all the time. And that part of that is being authentic to your destination. So, this is where when you think about the excitement of traveling. And the lifelong memories, right? So these high barriers of entry markets are in destinations that have a soul. They offer experiences really that build emotional connections, lifelong memories, and long-term loyalty. And when we talk about what we do as an industry, I think that really encapsulates everything you do. Memories, loyalty, experience. 

[00:12:59] Susan Barry: This is crazy. You incorporated January 20th, 2025, so right at the beginning of this year.  And took over your first hotels just a couple of weeks later. What were some of the early systems or standards that you put in place to help scale, like to help make that happen without losing the soul of the company?

[00:13:25] Steven Rubin: So I'll answer the former first, which is more on the technology. So it's when you think about it, and I go back and I look back at those days, like my notes from those days, and I can't believe it was less than a year ago. We had to onboard 26 technology systems. But when you think about the intricacies of the hotel, right? Like you have your guest messaging, you have your CRS, you have your financial, you have your HR system, you have your revenue management system, your CRM, your email marketing, all of it, right? So yeah, we had to accelerate all of that. We had to identify the companies that we wanted to partner with. Are they right for us? All of that. So that's part of it. So I'd say, also the other side of that is a little bit of insanity, which I think we are a bit all are a bit insane in this industry. I would not wanna wish this upon anyone else. But then the latter part is we did a really powerful offsite in March. And it really ended up being this incredible insight into where we were gonna go culturally. And I think creating, I didn't realize that at the time, Susan, but I think that that has really set us up for the future. And there was only like step in nine of us, seven people from corporate and two GMs at the time. But a lot of what came out of it. Personally, was a lot of aha moments. And like I said, I go back and I look at my notes like, we did this, it was a two-day retreat. We did a writing project and it was interesting. I go back and look at this probably once a month, and some of the things that I wrote down was like, I want to challenge myself, my team, the company and my partners to go beyond our comfort zone. Create, enhance, and even destroy what this industry looks like today. We wanna bring the soul of hospitality back. We have to turn it upside down sometimes. And we definitely are out of our comfort zone a long times. But the fact that we embrace that is so beautiful and it's just created this similar to the days at Kimpton, we're in this position where we're building these relationships. And again, that's part of it, right? So it's okay, hey, I'm building the relationship. I'm not attacked. We don't go and attack each other and point fingers at when somebody's done something wrong. We're working together to build this as a team, and we've slowly expanded from those nine people to in season we're around 300 employees. And next year we're gonna double that again. 

[00:16:23] Susan Barry: Speaking of doubling next year, there are two faraway properties opening in 2026, Sag Harbor and Jackson Hole. What will make each of those hotels feel of their place rather than like a copy-paste of what you've already done?

[00:16:41] Steven Rubin: So this is one of my favorite things. Our faraway brand narrative is all guided by Muses. Our muses for faraway are all fictional women born out of each destination. And we really embrace 'em. Like we spend a lot of time going over these, creating 'em, and then looking at them and figuring out their guest experiences. So each muse really embodies the soul and spirit of her location. Like I said, influences design, guest experiences, even cultural tones at the hotel. And that's what ensures the property really has this unique rooted in place right in the destination, personality. So that's really what we do. Like I said, we embrace it. So when we look at like a Sag Harbor, right? So the Muse and Sag Harbor is well traveled. She's actually a free diver and an artist. 

[00:17:51] Susan Barry: What's her name? Does she have a name? 

[00:17:53] Steven Rubin: Can't give the name out yet. 

[00:17:54] Susan Barry: Okay, got it. 

[00:17:55] Steven Rubin: But they all do. 

[00:17:56] Susan Barry: Susan, her name is Susan. 

[00:17:57] Steven Rubin: Susan. Actually, the faraway muse for Nantucket is Susan, Susan Bloomfield. 

[00:18:06] Susan Barry: Are you serious? Oh, that's so cool. Yay. 

[00:18:08] Steven Rubin: Susan. The story of Susan Bloomfield because the faraway Nantucket has a restaurant called Sister Ship. 

[00:18:13] Susan Barry: Awesome. 

[00:18:14] Steven Rubin: And so her story is she was a pirate and she was the captain and her entire crew was women. And there's actually our PDR at Sister Ship has portraits of all of the women, her whole crew and her. 

[00:18:32] Susan Barry: Oh, that is so cool. I love it. 

[00:18:35] Steven Rubin: And the restaurant has little trinkets that she's picked up along the way. So when you check into the faraway Nantucket, there's a curiosity closet, and it's all things that Susan Bloomfield has picked up along her travel.

[00:18:46] Susan Barry: Oh my gosh. How cool is that? 

[00:18:49] Steven Rubin: So that's what I mean. We embrace it, right? Like our rituals are designed around these things. Our guest touch points are designed around them. So you know where Sag Harbor is really inspired by sea and travel, and this is somebody who they've come back to Sag Harbor. They've landed in Sag Harbor and they've made this their coastal estate. So they have big gatherings and lavish dinners, and they welcome their friends and guests and family and travelers alike. That's what we're building around Sag. Jackson Hole on the complete other scale, right? Is the muse is born of the wild, so she's a horse woman. From the early 1900s, she's got a restless heart and an unbreakable will, so you can still incorporate those designs into that hotel that are still very westernized and rough and rugged and outdoorsy and mountainous. And have that all incorporate into everything. So she created the story is that she created the far away in Jackson Hole as a place for rest. And you know, we welcome people in it's rugged beauty, quiet luxury, all of that. And then there's the vastness of the landscape. And we want people to get out and experience everything out there. So, you know, that's the magic. 

[00:20:31] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with practical and tangible tips to try either in their businesses or in their personal lives. Seasonal destinations live and die by labor. What have you learned with your seasonal properties about recruiting, housing, training for seasonal teams so that the service can stay consistent?

[00:21:02] Steven Rubin: Still learning. 

[00:21:04] Susan Barry: Great answer. I'm glad to hear it. 

[00:21:06] Steven Rubin: And we'll continue to learn. Every year is gonna be different, right? Seasonal recruiting is hard. It really is. Leadership really matters on this one. So, you have to create consistency in that leadership, too. But we weren't able to, it's like, how do we do that when you just incorporate. I don't have a GM that's returning, so we need to make sure that we do that moving forward and we're learning that. The hardest part of it that we're really focused on in the off-season is how do we tackle the ability to accelerate training? Training about the brand, training about the destination, training about our rituals, when you have seasonal staff. So sometimes they come back year after year, which you really want, but other times it's new people that are coming from all parts of the world with all various experiences. So, as we've learned, my current working theory or thesis is by applying different time sequence because I wanna be able to hit pre-arriving, right? I wanna be able to hit them during the interview process with things. I wanna hit them before they even come. I wanna hit them when they arrive and then accelerate their learning of everything. We have to incorporate this multi-sensory learning model. I've done various research on learning models and how people learn. And right now my theory is focusing on cognitive and then visual, auditory and kinesthetic learning. So I wanna hit everybody 'cause everybody learns differently, right? Like you were saying about everything you learned with you and your husband. I found there's this product called Notebook LM. Which can turn material into a podcast. So I can just drop in my brand information, stories about the muse, like everything on my muse. And it'll turn it into a four-minute podcast.

[00:23:26] Susan Barry: Oh, so people can listen to it vs. reading it. Got it, got it. 

[00:23:30] Steven Rubin: Exactly. So now I'm talking about the auditory learning, right?  How do I give them something that's visual? How do I create a diagram that shows their characteristic, that shows our rituals, how do I lay that out in a diagram form so they can visually see how to go through it? How do we use video? How do I get that kinesthetic side of that hands-on practice, right? That role-playing. So we're trying to figure out how to incorporate all of that to accelerate the learning. And I'll let you know how it goes. 

[00:24:06] Susan Barry: Please do. This is not related to learning except for maybe it is a little bit, but it almost seems like as you grow the brand, you could grow in matched pairs so that the seasons are opposite so that you've got, like this team goes from Sag Harbor to Blah blah every year, and they just all stay together and go back and forth, back and forth seasonally to the properties. I think that would be cool. 

[00:24:36] Steven Rubin: We are trying that obviously with the Jackson. So we have done a little bit of that. So good insight. The challenge becomes is there's also limitations on how long somebody can be doing a J one. So there's three year rotations, there's all these qualifications. You have to change the EIN. So it's a different company if they move from one destination to another. So I'm learning a lot on the legality and the ins and outs of hiring seasonal employees.

[00:25:10] Susan Barry: It’s tricky. 

[00:25:11] Steven Rubin: But yeah, it's really tricky. And it also becomes really tricky when you start talking about culture because you want to maintain that culture. So, how do we still have to hold people accountable. You still have to make sure they're responsible because you don't want somebody going against some of your cultural things with accountability and trust and all of that. It's from a standpoint of building a brand that you love and live for, like handing that over to people that are in their early 20s, coming from various places in the world. You don't sleep well all the time. 

[00:25:58] Susan Barry: What is a practical way that general managers, directors of sales and marketing, hotel leaders can weave local narratives into sort of the everyday touch points in a hotel, like the email you get before you arrive and the check-in process, food and beverage menus, all that stuff, without it feeling gimmicky. Like, I'll give you an example. I was opening a hotel in Atlanta and the copywriter that they hired continued to refer to Hotlanta, which is not something people here say. So that's sort of what I'm getting at.

[00:26:40] Steven Rubin: It's the area code, right? Like in Atlanta, they really locally focus on…? 

[00:26:47] Susan Barry: ATL, like there's a bunch of different things to say about hotlana is not one of them. So how do you avoid that sort of gimmicky cheesiness, you know? 

[00:26:58] Steven Rubin: Well, part of it is we really do embrace ourselves into the market. So one of Blue Flag's theories is they acquire property and then they like to hold it for a year and learn about the destination, ingratiate themselves in the community, meet the local community members, all of that before we launch it as a faraway. So you gotta take the time to learn the community, right? Like you should know that hotlana is not what you say. It's not hard to figure that out, right? But you gotta listen. So let's go back to the beginning when I said I learned from Marriott. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. You can take that into learning about your community and your local and what the lingo is. I think the other side of it is, as a GM, as DOSM and as a company, you really gotta find what your North Star is and stay true to that because part of it is your brand. Your brand could be cheesy, it could be hotlana. If that is it, then lead with it. If it's not, then go back to what your brand is about and take the extra time to step outside the box and do it. I think the final piece of it, especially in this day and age. Don't just go to ChatGPT and put in, create me a campaign. 

[00:28:28] Susan Barry: Yes. I could not agree more. Actually, let me ask you about AI. This is of course, the thing that we have to talk about all the time. All the time in the business. Where do you think artificial intelligence can improve a guest's stay? And where do you think it backfires? 

[00:28:50] Steven Rubin: There's more places it'll backfire than improve. But that to me is all the user. So it can completely enhance it if you're using it correctly. When you start looking at how, especially the way that AI is going now. It's getting more real-time research online. And you can add in your own, you can train AI to have your tone of voice. So, as a user, what is my input? Am I reading the output and am I taking time to make sure I'm doing the right prompts? So from a guest experience standpoint, a lot of people on the luxury side. We social stock, right? Like, I know you're coming, I'm checking out your Instagram, I'm checking out your Facebook, going online, I'm doing all this stuff. AI actually offers an opportunity for you to do that and expedite it. 

[00:29:51] Susan Barry: Oh, interesting. I didn't think about that.

[00:29:53] Steven Rubin: Yeah. Well, for us, when you're talking about the level of people that were servicing a lot. Then yes, it does help because they do have a digital footprint. So I don't know. I haven't done it yet. Maybe I should have before we talked, but I'm sure if I went in and mentioned Susan Barry and gave up a little bit of background, I could probably learn about a little bit more about you. And I then take those nuggets of information and I can incorporate them into what your stay looks like. So I'm sure I could find out, and even though I've learned this in our conversations, that you're a bird watcher and you love birds, right? So now, when you're in Martha's Vineyard, if I know where the good locations are for that, I can add that to it, right? Like I could even put that in the pre-arrival email. By the way, here's a destination you should go check out. They have incredible birdwatching. 

[00:30:57] Susan Barry: That's cool. I love that idea. That makes a lot of sense. Okay. If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about hotel management companies operate today, anything, what would it be?

[00:31:09] Steven Rubin: Okay. If I could wave my magic wand, which I would love to have by the way. I think what the industry went through with COVID, with financial recessions and everything. I've seen the industry go through a lot and I feel like we've come out of it and we've kind of stopped caring. I feel like it's something we run from and we fear because it hurts. And I want the industry to really start to go back to deeply caring about people, their employees, their guests not putting them as a number or just a mileage program that they're trying to just collecting miles. And I know that it's not an easy thing to say to care, and I talk to a lot of people in the industry and that have been frustrated either with friends in their job. It's like, I just don't feel like so and so cares or my ownership group cares. And I think that goes away from what hospitality is all about. And I know that as somebody who does deeply care and has worked with a lot of people who do deeply care, it's easy 'cause it's not easy because it makes you vulnerable. There are times where you have to do things, make tough decisions for either team members or you have to have tough conversations with a guest. But I think that's what I'd like to see more. Another quote from Brené Brown is “Clear as kind. Unclear is not.” And I feel like we as an industry wanna make people happy. And by doing that, we don't necessarily always say what's clear that needs to happen. And that's hard to say, but if you really do care, you will. You'll have those tough conversations. I wanna see the industry care more. 

[00:33:15] Susan Barry: Interesting. Okay, folks, before we tell Steve goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.

Elevator voice announces, “Going down.” 

[00:33:29] Susan Barry: Steve, what is the story you would only tell on the loading dock? 

[00:33:33] Steven Rubin: So, loading dock stories, there's probably a lot of 'em that I've gone through, especially in those early days. 

[00:33:43] Susan Barry: I was gonna say your first year in the business. 

[00:33:46] Steven Rubin: So I did run a couple by the family, my wife and my daughter. They had two different ones, both from the overnight, so there was obviously a colorful time, working the overnight and relocating guests. And it was anything from coming up. I had moved from home in Washington, born and raised in Redmond, Washington. Never really spent any time in New York City except for like a layover. So imagine a 22-year-old kid and the entire city sold out. So I'm online looking for a hotel and I find one, it's like four miles away. I'm like, okay, this is the only thing I can find. And I had friends, like all over, all the overnight managers, we were friends, they were all sold out. So I find this one and I call 'em and I reserve it, and the guest comes in, I tell ‘em, “Hey, it's not, I'll pay, pay for your cab”, like ready to go. 

[00:34:58] Susan Barry: It's only four miles away. 

[00:34:58] Steven Rubin: It's only four or five miles away, right in Manhattan. Need say, I got a call about 30, 45 minutes later from him while he is in the Lincoln Tunnel. I had relocated him to Secaucus. 

[00:35:11] Susan Barry: Oh my gosh. That's crazy.

[00:35:15] Steven Rubin: I didn't know, though. Like I supposed to know it was miles. 

[00:35:17] Susan Barry: So, for people who don’t know, explain why. That's crazy. 

[00:35:22] Steven Rubin: The hotel was on the east side of Manhattan. You have to cross through Times Square. You have to go through the Lincoln Tunnel and there's only three ways to enter into Manhattan from New Jersey, and Secaucus is in New Jersey. So there's the Lincoln Tunnel, the Holland, and the GW, which is all the way, like five miles north. 

[00:35:48] Susan Barry: So four or five miles is like how many minutes of an adventure. 

[00:35:53] Steven Rubin: That's the other part is he had a morning meeting. He berated me about on the phone. And if you commute from New Jersey into the city, you're talking anywhere between a 45-minute to 2-hour commute.

[00:36:13] Susan Barry: To go four miles. That is insane. Steve Rubin, thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners are eagerly awaiting the opening of your two new hotels, and I really appreciate you riding with us to the top floor.

[00:36:33] Steven Rubin: Susan, thank you so much for the time and the incredibly thoughtful questions.

[00:36:39] Susan Barry: Thank you for listening and Happy New Year. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/224. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all-around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen, and your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.

[00:37:15] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 850-404-9630 to be featured in a future episode.