Transcript: Episode 207: Mindset Drives Everything
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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 206. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/207
[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.
[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Agnelo Fernandez began his career in finance before quickly realizing his passion lay elsewhere. His journey into hospitality began with planning a corporate conference, which revealed a love for engaging with people and the dynamic nature of hotel work. Since then, Agnelo has amassed a wide ranging career that includes leadership roles at various resorts in the Caribbean and iconic hospitality brands like Canyon Ranch, Senesta and Coral Tree Hospitality. Agnelo has launched and repositioned multiple properties, developed branding strategies, and embraced both traditional hotels and unique outdoor experiences. Today he is Chief Executive Officer of Cote Hospitality, where he leads a company known for its unique mix of indoor and outdoor hospitality experiences, including heritage summer camps and resorts. Today we are going to talk about leadership rooted in culture, but before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.
Call button rings
The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals and basically anybody else with a burning question. If you would like to submit a question for me or my guests, you can call or text me at (850) 404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Shane. Shane asks, “What is a basic definition or description of culture when it comes to work?” Shane then like writes kind of an explanation wherein he says, “I know what culture means when it comes to art, music, literature, et cetera, but I am having a hard time defining it when it comes to work.” So, tell me, Agnelo, what do you think about Shane's question and how would you answer it?
[00:02:35] Agnelo Fernandes: I think it's a brilliant question and Shane, thank you for asking it. And Susan, thank you for having me on your podcast today. I'm really honored. So for me culture isn't a mystical thing, it is truly about the way we describe our culture, is all about enriching lives and that we do every day. But it’s really about what our people think about us when we are not looking. So I would say be obsessed with the small stuff. In my case, I think about do I know our associates? Do I know their family names? Or if somebody made it to college or had an achievement, am I acknowledging it? Am I asking questions? So that's one side of it, right? But the other side of it is, when somebody errors or makes a mistake, the big thing is to start the blame game, and point fingers. So in my case, it's do we seek to understand, do we ask the question what happened versus who did it? And try to figure out ways. So this helps us bond each other. And for me, I do in my mind what I, in my mind, I call it culture rounds. And I literally walk around and have conversations, informal meetings, ask him, how's your day? And I listen for patterns. Are people excited? Are they frustrated? Do they feel supported? And, Shane, one of the things that you need to know is that culture is built around conversations. It's one decision, one response to any crises or any awesome situation. But beyond the ping pong tables, which are important, it's important to understand if people are feel seen and are valued.
[00:04:18] Susan Barry: Wow. That's a great answer. I have to imagine that that answer came from your hotel career and not your finance career, but a lot of people we've had on the show have had the same experience as you, which is they start out in some type of finance business and sort of realize that they have made a terrible mistake. So what was the moment you knew that hospitality was your true calling?
[00:04:48] Agnelo Fernandes: You know, Susan, I thought at 21, I had my life figured out, right? I got selected for a finance job, a steady paycheck. And as a student being broke half the time, this was nice, a steady paycheck. I thought maybe I'll climb the corporate ladder and then figure out what’s next. And it so happened where I was starting to get antsy and my then boss and mentor said, “Hey, Agnelo, why don't you plan this conference for us?" And I'm like, great, more work now. And something magical happened when I started interacting with the folks at this resort, I kind of watched the front desk get all jazzed up and as I did the site inspection, I saw housekeeping and taking great genuine pride in how they maintain their rooms. The energy, right? And I'm an energy person, it just felt so different. And suddenly I'm having these incredible, amazing conversations with people, with the the hotel manager, and especially the sales and marketing team who kept this a story and after another story and another story, and I'm like, what? By the, maybe my second interaction, I'm like, wait - people actually love coming to work here. And in finance, it was all about moving numbers around.
In this case it was all about dealing with people's emotions and no day was, no two days were the same. And so I went back to my cubicle and I was like, that's it for me, I knew I had to be where the people were. I needed to feed from different people's energies and the main aspect of those stories just captivated me. So I did trade my desk and a sea of spreadsheets, and don't get me wrong, I love numbers. That's what I live off today. But I, just kept wondering, do I take the sleep versus sitting back and saying, regretting it someday. So I then traded my calculator for a name tag and honestly, I've never looked back. So but I love finance and no, no disrespect. It was just very quiet, so…
[00:07:03] Susan Barry: I think that most of the folks that I've talked to, it sounds like the same is true for you, that the finance background, it provides sort of a really great base for the absolutely next moves and the next jobs, but it's just they wanted more interaction, more fun. If nothing else, the hotel business is fun. Speaking of which, tell us about your time at Canyon Ranch. What did it teach you?
[00:07:30] Agnelo Fernandes: For me, it was like getting a masterclass in authenticity. And as I've grown in life and, getting to sort of where I am today that's really what leadership is all about is are you real? But at Canyon Ranch has started feeling like, here's a place where people come when they're most vulnerable. In some cases it was a smoking cessation, or trying to lose weight or trying to eat right, or just trying to learn how to meditate and slow down in life. And they were trying to, at the end of the day, they were all trying to find peace within themselves and one can't fake their way through that. At Canyon Ranch, the, the magic happened because every single person there, from the spa attendant to the nutritionist, to the healers they all understood that they just weren't doing a job, right? They were part of somebody's story of transformation, life transformation, and it really taught me the brand is about the collective experiences that the team creates. You can have amazing logos and incredible advertising, but at the end of the day if your staff doesn't care, then the brand's broken.
[00:08:45] Susan Barry: Cote Hospitality is a pretty unique company. You operate resorts and heritage summer camps. I think before I ask you questions about your job, what it looks like, what you do on a day-to-day basis and how you build culture, I really wanna understand and help our listeners understand what the operation is like. What do you have?
[00:09:10] Agnelo Fernandes: Sure. So for us we are over a hundred years old and it's an organization built on tradition, legacy, and excellence. Currently we have resorts in Minnesota and Arizona, but we also operate summer camps. And as we continue to grow our organization, we are gonna grow in that space, in the boutique space especially with resorts. And then also we are expanding our foray into camping which already exists, but glamping and RVs and things of that nature because we have the most amazing asset, which is land that we own, and we also are financially extremely well-capitalized to move forward. So what we are doing right now is, I've spent the last couple of years trying to reset culture define strategy, and then create a culture of performance. And so I feel strongly that we are there. We have an amazing team that supports me. And now as the market conditions dictate we do plan to continue to expand. And so we are actively searching for acquisitions. We are actively searching for management , and partnerships that we can grow other assets and basically do a turnkey operation that includes culture, brand development, demand generation, performance improvement, down to setting systems and operating procedures and of course all aided by technology.
[00:10:46] Susan Barry: I think it's interesting that you have both resorts and summer camps. How is delivering hospitality to, I guess, children, right? Children and their families, different from delivering hospitality to a resort guest.
[00:11:04] Agnelo Fernandes: Well, I never thought I'd be in the business of trying to figure out summer camps for kids, versus adults no less. So, I feel like kids are the ultimate truth tellers, right? Adults may smile, they may be more forgiving in certain cases and say everything is fine even when it's not. But a seven or a 10-year-old will look you dead in the eye and say that mac and cheese was terrible. That pizza was not tasty. Or on the reverse, they could say that experience with my counselor and the way he or she made me feel, overcome my fears or my apprehensions. That is where the connection happens, right? It's when we do things wrong, but then turn the situation around and more importantly, when we do things right and build that immediate trust and connectivity, that for me is a big difference. With families you are not just serving guests, you're serving their most precious thing in the entire world. Parents trust us with their children's safety, their happiness, their development, and in many cases this is their first time away from home, either spending two weeks or four weeks. And that's kind of sacred territory. I remember, I have two daughters, growing up we were afraid to send them anywhere more than two or three days. Even the sleepovers, I mean, they would have sleepovers, we would have sleepless nights, wondering is everything going well? But our teams know that the parents and, and their peace of mind is just as important as the children that we have at camps and their smile. So it really takes everybody to play at their highest level, bring their A game because the stakes are so high and they feel so personal. Not to say that that's not the case at our resort, but the differentiating factors that you have an audience that is ruthlessly honest and can put you in your place in a second.
[00:13:07] Susan Barry: You just have to be happy that they can't write TripAdvisor reviews, right.
[00:13:12] Agnelo Fernandes: I don't know anymore because I'm hearing that teenagers are starting businesses, leveraging AI, so who knows?
[00:13:19] Susan Barry: Man, just what we need — undeveloped prefrontal cortex-led businesses. Talk about what a typical day looks like for you. I can imagine that there is no such thing as a typical day, given the wide variety of property that you work on.
[00:13:38] Agnelo Fernandes: So as a CEO of course, there's the vision setting and the strategy setting and all those things that we typically do, right? But candidly, there is no a typical day, which is what I love about what I do. The day before, yesterday evening, I did some work in the office in Minneapolis, jumped in my car, drove up to our property at Grandview Lodge in Nisswa, Minnesota. Along the way, connected with my director managing director at the camps on my drive there. Get to the resort, we go into a city council meeting. Next morning, breakfast with the mayor the city of Nisswa. Then worked with my executive team at Grandview Lodge and we talked about the forecast and what do we need to do to sort of finish strong and take that momentum to 2026. So it keeps on and on and on, right? And then along the way, there's always something that comes up, right? And then, I get excited about some of the things that we are doing at Tanker Birdie Ranch, like we're in the process of developing a new spa there which will bring wellness in a whole different facet and facade to the wellness in Tucson. And so what is consistent about my job is that, 60% of my time is spent in with people in the culture aspect of it. Whether it's our team members, our guests, or our partners , the spreadsheets and analytics matter, but the real work happens in conversations and especially the ones that are face to face, right? I'm obsessed about asking questions. I'm very curious by nature. Sometimes I might drive a few folks crazy, but that's okay. But I never do that versus I never jump into what are the numbers and, what does profitability look like without asking them how are they doing and how are they feeling about things as they progress. So as much as I can do, my job is really to connect with people, remove obstacles make sure that we are always thinking about innovative ways to take care of our guests and our people. And at the end of the day, I've got the confidence of having the best team in the world. So my job is to really get out of their way but always make sure that we are focused on our vision of enriching lives and creating those exceptional memories and true experiences.
[00:16:10] Susan Barry: I have the hardest question for you. You can only pick one: If you could spend the day talking to associates, team members, your staff, or guests only one. One or the other, who would you spend the day talking to?
[00:16:29] Agnelo Fernandes: 100% my associates.
[00:16:31] Susan Barry: Interesting. How come?
[00:16:32] Agnelo Fernandes: Very, very simple because I'll always get the down and dirty. Because for me it starts with the associates, right? If they're happy everything else flows right, If they feel valued, they then and they feel empowered. They then take things to the next level, right? It's about that backend locker room trust as the old ad adage goes. So if I can build that, that level of trust, because, I can always explain the why we are doing what we do easier to our associates and then empower them and say, go forth and deliver. If I can do that and they can see the intensity in my eyes and the passion that I have for people and do it through storytelling, the rest takes care of itself and just not guests, but even profits. Right? So I'm very obsessed with the small stuff in terms of connecting with them and at a more human level than a transactional level.
[00:17:37] Susan Barry: Emotional intelligence is probably more important than intellectual intelligence in hospitality. How do you train your teams to care for guests with empathy and kindness and authenticity?
[00:17:56] Agnelo Fernandes: Sure. So, within our leadership team we always say, you can't teach somebody to care but you can create conditions where caring feels real, feels natural. So it's always about hearts first, right? You can't teach attitude. You can't teach positivity. But then during our trainings, we love to share real guest stories. We like to talk about not just the highlight reels, but also the vulnerable stuff. So I think situational training is really critical as you onboard once you get past onboarding as much as functional training. And so what, what I mean by that situational training is getting them ready for real life situations. A guest is not happy with the meal that they're served versus how did I set my table, how did I greet them as I presented them the menu? How did I talk about my specials? How did I upsell? That's functional. But the situational stuff is where. You move from being transactional to really being relational. And so like, empathy, absolutely. The most critical thing. And I believe that when every time I sit down to have dinner or a meal I usually ask this any server that comes up to me, I'm like, so what's going on today? Tell me what made your day or tell me something that I can help with. And I don't probe in too much because they will tell you. And so this goes back to the question you asked me earlier, would I spend time with my associates or my guests? And that's the exact reason why 100% with my associates, and the rest will happen.
[00:19:41] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with some really specific practical tips to try either in their businesses or maybe in their personal lives. So what advice would you give someone who is trying to shift from a corporate hospitality role into something that's a little more entrepreneurial or purpose-driven? Sort of like what you did. What did you have to do differently or think differently about, or change in order to make that shift?
[00:20:18] Agnelo Fernandes: So, I'm a big believer in mindset drives everything. For instance, I wake up with a sense of gratitude that breeds positivity, that then takes it to the next level and makes me as confident as I can potentially be where I can break down any barriers. And then, figuring out how to make somebody's day right? So as an entrepreneur, you have to have, if that's the move you're gonna make, you have to think about mindset. You have to think about how are you going to change your game? Because you are now not only impacting your pocketbook, but also the lives of other people. So if, let's say, if you have a firm and it has 20 people or 2000 people, doesn't matter. It's about the folks that so you've gotta, you've gotta have that mindset.
The second thing that I would say is that if you're going into some business, know what the purpose is, you have to be purpose driven. And that means when you understand why you're doing what you're doing, the value proposition becomes very easy. And, it's so simple then to describe it in a very simple and authentic way. what, what do you do? I also think that listening is a great skill that many of us are always on that journey to perfe to get to that perfection. Right?
[00:21:44] Susan Barry: That's a very diplomatic way to say it. We are on the journey to perfect our listening skills. That's like, I'm on a journey to develop patience. Carry on!
[00:21:57] Agnelo Fernandes: So it's really about that listening in a way — what excites you? What kind of keeps you up at night? No sense in waiting for that perfect moment and to try something new, right? Ask a lot of questions. Don't be afraid to admit what you don't know. And I think that as an entrepreneur, if that you are gonna fail more than you're gonna succeed. And I think that's kind of like the, the game plan for most everything, right? You're gonna be fine. And a lot of times, even when I was on my entrepreneurial journey as a consultant a few years ago, all I kept focusing was on, good Lord, is it gonna be famine or feast, right? How am I gonna pay my bills? And when I switched my mindset to thinking that it's really about solving a problem that my customer is begging me to solve. And if my job is to serve them and figure out a way to give them a solution. It changed the game and then I moved from, let me solve your problem and when I was able to provide a vision board for them. My fees became almost irrelevant. And they were like, but we wanna deal with you. And so at the end of the day, every entrepreneur or every executive that wants to grow, has to believe in themselves. Number one, that there's nobody else that's gonna believe in you more than yourself. So I think self-belief is a big part of how I would address this.
[00:23:35] Susan Barry: What are some of the most tangible actions, like something you could write on a to-do list that a leader can take to improve workplace culture?
[00:23:48] Agnelo Fernandes: I would say the first thing is to always think about building engagement. How do you build engagement? Most of the times you are interacting with somebody in business and if not, you'd be doing what I was trying to do when I started my career, sitting in a cubicle looking at spreadsheets. But then all kidding aside, instead of just jumping into an agenda, I like to start my meetings with some level of celebration. What what are we celebrating today? Are we celebrating an associate? Are we celebrating booking a big whale? Are we celebrating guest feedback? I love celebrating those because then that enables people to understand that they're being recognized in front of their peers. That feeling is like nothing else. I've been there on both sides, right?
[00:24:40] Susan Barry: I love that idea. I'm now just running through my mind right now what meetings I can start with celebrations instead of just jumping into the agenda. That is such a good idea. I'm writing that down. Carry on.
[00:24:53] Agnelo Fernandes: Of course. And then, every meeting or every interaction, you know you're gonna get the good the good stuff, right? But then you're also gonna get the stuff that may not be the way it was intended to be. And so I think the best thing to do is to always say, well, what happened? Versus focusing on, who screwed up? And that simple switch from “who” to “what” shifts everything from sort of blame to understanding. So I intentionally go into meetings thinking about how I'm gonna say, what I'm gonna say, what is it that I'm gonna say that's necessary, done with a level of compassion. But most importantly, that's gonna influence and inspire somebody to say, gosh, I could do this differently, without me telling them the the answer. So I think when you look at tangible things there are many intangibles versus tangible. Then the last thing I would say, it's kind of keeping that, sticking to that old adage, keep it simple, stupid. That's the only thing I would say.
[00:26:07] Susan Barry: We have reached the fortune telling portion of the show, so you have to predict the future. And then I'm gonna keep track and I'll see if you got it right. What is a prediction that you have about the future of outdoor hospitality, like camps and glamping? Sure.
[00:26:25] Agnelo Fernandes: So I think we're gonna see a massive shift towards experiences that enable people to disconnect from the real world. I'm not just talking technology, I'm talking the drive or you may have to make certain payments or you're financially start, whatever the case may be. But I think they want to disconnect from all of that real world issues to actually reconnecting with people that they love and care about. And when I say reconnecting doesn't mean that you have to have your significant other by your side or your friends get together in a certain place. It could be done by just reaching out over the phone. I think the pandemic showed us that we do crave the authentic human connection and that time in a natural setting. I believe that the winners won't just be in places with the pretty views, right? They'll be ones who understand what is really critical about that transformation in outdoor hospitality. I feel like people just don't wanna see beautiful places, they wanna feel different. They want that transformative feeling when they leave and an experience that they can take. Something new and something different that they have never done. But yes. Do you wanna stay at a fancy resort versus a camp? And there'll be a time and place for everything. At our resorts people come for different reasons. At Grandview it may be they show up to play golf or use the spa. At Tanko Verde, it's really about enjoying the horses and the southwestern lifestyle and culinary experiences. And at camps, it's really about those little transformational life experiences for our kids. And we try to do that not only in outdoor hospitality, but in every resort because we believe that the blend of that is where the magic happens for us.
[00:28:23] Susan Barry: Excellent. I could definitely use a disconnect from the real world.
[00:28:28] Agnelo Fernandes: Let us know.
[00:28:29] Susan Barry: If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about how hospitality companies think about culture, what would it be?
[00:28:39] Agnelo Fernandes: I think every hospitality leader including my team at the home office, I would say spend a week working every department in the property. And I'm not talking about just, touring and siding, right? Get your hands dirty. Clean rooms or serve tables or check people in as best as you can because until you've tried to to maintain your smile at the tenth difficult guest of the day, or clean a room monotonously, every 20 or 30 minutes, it's truly hard to understand what we're asking of our team. And so it's about going back to the concept of empathy, right? And I believe that culture changes when leaders stop managing others and then start understanding what they're all about. So, for me, I think if I had that magic wand, I'd be like, okay, we're all gonna do this and try it out. There are, there are lots of great stories in our industry where when you get your hands dirty and don't wait to be asked, just raise your hand or show up and get it done, is how I look at it.
[00:29:55] Susan Barry: Okay folks, before we tell Agnelo goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.
Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”
[00:30:10] Susan Barry: Agnelo. What is a story you would only tell on the loading dock?
[00:30:13] Agnelo Fernandes: Oh, man. So this is in my earlier years in the industry. I was in guest services, trying to make my way into sales, and I'd done all the other departments, food and beverage and housekeeping and engineering, but I enjoyed the front of the house very much because I got to interact with people. There was a guest that was a regular and kind of a corporate guest, we call it. So one fine one of his stays, he shows up. From being somebody who was always this passive, never complained, never said anything, he just started complaining about everything. It was the bed, the food, the pillow that we had. And back in the day, you remember there would be ashtrays in the room and sometimes you'd have to clean the room make it smoke free before somebody came. And I think if he could complain about the weather and if he could complain about the color of the ocean and the sky, he would. And I remember our team, the executive team, had gone offsite and we were like, okay, time to do our thing. But I think he was able to sort of get us to that tipping point where we were about to fall apart and so I was thinking long and hard and I said, maybe we just kill him with kindness. So being kind of at the front, I personally greeted him and said how his day was and, and really listened to what he had to say.
Well, turns out that he had lost his his wife of 30 plus years and they were supposed to show up at our resort, and that was their dream trip that they had gone through their patches. You know, you're in love and you're kind of in love and you're out of love, and then you're trying to get back into love. So we just started talking and and I told him about, my journey and my aspirations. I was about 23 at the time. And I realized, he was not angry with us. He was just angry at life. But then I made it a point to greet him every morning and walk him to the coffee shop and next thing you know, by the end of the, towards the end of the stay, he was connecting with other guests. He was telling them about, Hey, listen, when you come back here, you call Agnelo and send him a message. And before he left, he was literally shaking hands or giving hugs to some of the folks. And as he left, I made sure that I walked him towards his ride. And he said, “Agnelo, this is the first time I've smiled since I lost my wife.” And it meant a lot to me. I was young, I was reckless. But I think there's, there are certain moments in life that actually make you think and appreciate life differently. So, the most difficult personality, whether it's a guest or an associate, sometimes it's just a wounded human being, right?
And so I feel like, every single interaction just demonstrate a level of compassion even if they're difficult, because you never know what load or what weight somebody is really carrying in life. And once you understand number one, stay at step one. Then they understand that you understand and it's game over. And to this day, we still remain good friends. He is been a career coach, council, mentor has run a Fortune 500 company. And when I took on my first role as a CEO, he's of course retired since, I reach out and connect and he'll say, just throw a 30 minute calendar appointment and I just wanna check and see how you're doing and that's what's kept me going, honestly. So that's one story that I would tell you on your loading dock for sure.
[00:34:10] Susan Barry: That's a story that would make me cry on the loading dock Agnelo! What a wonderful interaction. And it's so true. You just never ever know. Agnelo Fernandez, thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners got some great tips - I certainly did. I actually wrote down several great tips and I really appreciate you writing with us to the top floor.
[00:34:38] Agnelo Fernandes: It's a pleasure and an honor. Thank you so much and and to your audience too. I, I truly appreciate it. I look forward to welcoming you to one of our properties so you can disconnect.
[00:34:48] Susan Barry: Thank you so much for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/207. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen and your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.
[00:35:24] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 8504049630 to be featured in a future episode.