Transcript: Episode 195: Basket of Puppies
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[00:00:00] Susan Barry: This is Top Floor episode 195. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/195.
[00:00:14] Narrator: Welcome to Top Floor with Susan Barry. This weekly podcast ride up to the top floor features tangible tips and excellent stories from the experts and characters who elevate hospitality. And now your host and elevator operator, Susan Barry.
[00:00:32] Susan Barry: Welcome to the show. Guise Bule is a self-described third culture kid who grew up traveling around the world with his father, a resort developer. After a career in tech and cybersecurity working in Silicon Valley and as a US government defense contractor, Guise pivoted to a new mission, making the world more dog-friendly for travelers. Guise founded a certification agency that uses AI to evaluate and certify hotels for dog friendliness with a focus on transparency, accuracy, and pushing the industry to genuinely serve pet travelers. Today we are going to talk about pet friendliness in hotels, the evolution of hospitality certifications, and how critical reviews can drive positive change. But before we jump in, we need to answer the call button.
Call button rings
The emergency call button is our hotline for hospitality professionals who have burning questions. If you would like to submit a question, you can call or text me at (850) 404-9630. Today's question was submitted by Gabby, so here's what Gabby has to say. “Our hotel brand is pet friendly and has a lengthy list of items that we must provide, including things like waste bags and gloves.” I think she's talking about like disposable, you know, rubber gloves that you use in the kitchen. This is what Gabby says. “This seems silly to me. Wouldn't a pet owner always have that stuff already? Can we cut back on some of those things?” So, Guise, what do you think about Gabby's question? Should they keep doing this or is it overkill?
[00:02:25] Guise Bule: It marks her hotel out as a really dog friendly hotel. Somebody over there is really thinking about the kind of hospitality they want to provide to dog owners. And I tell you, carrying extra stuff when you travel, having to pack bowls, food and water bowls, dog food, it's a lot to lug around with you, you know? And it's really nice to know there's amenities provided when you arrive. You can take a break from, you know, overpacking, you can just arrive with your dog and there are all that needs to be taken care of. I think that's a wonderful thing as a owner and I know other dog owners do too.
[00:02:59] Susan Barry: All right, Gabby, you're still on the hook. You've gotta keep providing those bags. So, Guise, your upbringing took you all over the world. How do you think traveling so much as a kid shaped your view of hospitality?
[00:03:14] Guise Bule: I've spent, it feels like I spent most of my life in hotels. I've stayed in thousands of hotels, man and boy. When my father was building them, we were staying in them. And as an adult I’ve been lucky enough to work in lots of countries, 10 or 15 countries, and it means staying in lots of hotels until you find a place to live. And I always have a dog with me. I always have done. I think the biggest thing it taught me growing up throughout my life is that hospitality isn't universal if you have a dog. It made me realize that pet friendly meant wildly different things, depending on the hotel you stayed in. You know, there was no real way of telling a good dog-friendly hotel from a bad pet-friendly hotel until you check in. You just have to stumble into this bad guest experience time and time again. And the whole thing just, you know, throughout my life has taught me to be very wary of the words pet-friendly. Because you know, more often than not these places are at home for a while. You want to be able to feel at home when you're staying there with your dog, and it's very often not the case in many pet-friendly hotels. So they taught me to be wary of hotels when they use those words.
[00:04:21] Susan Barry: Interesting. You mentioned working in 10 or 15 different countries. What first drew you to tech and cybersecurity, and then what pushed you to leave it behind?
[00:04:34] Guise Bule: I was a geek growing up as a boy. I had a ZX spectrum and a Commodor. I used a code in basic and build my first computer games, and I just fell in love with code and data, technology. And I also really enjoyed working on complex problem, big problems. I mean, the cybersecurity's full of them. But you know, after about 15, almost 20 years in that career, I realized that the industry was slowly making me a more cynical, suspicious, and paranoid person. I could never, you know, nobody really knew what I'd ever did for a living. And even if I explained it they didn’t fully understand it. I was constantly on the cusp of burning out. It's full of drama, full of activity. It's just a real experience, that whole industry. And I decided that wasn't how I wanted to spend the final last half of my career, I literally went to the dog season. I wanted to do something different. But yeah, that was what drew me to tech — big problems, data and code.
[00:05:34] Susan Barry: So speaking of data, you have obviously a lot of experience in data-driven industries. How does that differentiate, or how did that inform the way that you built the certification agency?
[00:05:50] Guise Bule: The whole experience taught me the power of objective data. Data is wonderful. You can see anything through the data if you look hard enough. You know, subjective opinions are valuable, but they don't create a reliable standard. And I knew we needed a data-driven approach and it influenced how we develop the standard and the authentification process. You know, we set out to identify specific measurable criteria. We have 45 key data points. It is service access levels, adjacencies, we cover everything a dog owner might conceivably ask a hotel before staying, and I knew it was important to gather this data, a structured data at scale to create a really objective data set of dog-friendliness. It's the world's largest data set of pet-friendly hotels, and it allows us to perform the most wonderful data analysis. You know, it really does.
[00:06:43] Susan Barry: Have you encountered a hotel that's met all 45 of the criteria?
[00:06:48] Guise Bule: Uh, they're out there. RA Plus hotels are stunning hotels, amazing, incredible experiences for dog owners. They're out there. There are hotels that literally tick every box out there, I promise you. I found them. I continue to search for them.
[00:07:01] Susan Barry: So we talked a little bit about how your experience sort of growing up and traveling a lot made you understand that the words “pet-friendly” didn't mean the same thing to everyone. What are the biggest misconceptions that travelers have about pet-friendly hotels?
[00:07:18] Guise Bule: I think that the words pet-friendly mean their dog will be welcomed. Right? But that's increasingly not true. Our research indicates that dog owners associate those words with high fees, unfair restrictions, and a lower level of hospitality. I know cats owners hate the words, they know it mostly doesn't include cats. Most hotels don't let cats stay, so I dunno what pets they're talking about, but nobody really thinks of their dog as a pet anymore. You know, they've become part of our family, our friends, and our silent healers. And I think those words “pet-friendly,” they increasingly feel like old fashioned marketing to most dog owners. You know, just want good, honest dog friendliness. And I think the biggest misconception travelers have about the words is pet-friendly means just that, you know.
[00:08:02] Susan Barry: And it doesn't always.
[00:08:04] Guise Bule: No!
[00:08:05] Susan Barry: How does the certification process work?
[00:08:09] Guise Bule: So we approach hotels, anything we write about hotels, any data we base our reviews on is gathered directly from their hotels themselves. We contact them and we ask them lots of questions. We ask them all of the questions that dog owners would probably ask them if they were considering a stay at the hotel. And we take that data away and we distill it into what we call a data set for the hotel that we can compare, like for like against a thousand plus other hotels. And we use a trusted benchmarking, we call it, to derive their info, and I don't say your hotel’s an A ranked hotel - not me. The data suggests that you share similar to characteristics with hotels in the A ranked cluster, and it's, it's a very fair and accurate way of ranking hotels, but we go about it in a very rigorous way. We want to know everything. It begins with questions. Ask all the questions, Susan, all of them, and we keep thinking of new ones to ask as well.
[00:09:08] Susan Barry: Is that different the way you do it, different from a rating system like Forbes or AAA or something like that? Do they do the same thing that you do?
[00:09:18] Guise Bule: Well, they also ask lots of questions, but the problem is with Forbes and AAA is when it comes to, you know, they both ask 101 questions about hotels when they rate and rank them. But they forget and completely fail to ask anything about pet policies. What happens if you turn up with a dog? So it's left this big black hole in the ratings agencies. They have no idea, which is a good dog-friendly hotel and which is a bad one, they just don’t know. That's what's different of ours. Ours, we are very, very focused on nothing but capturing a hotel's dog-friendly position and communicating that to dog owners in a very clear way so they understand what to expect before they book. And at a glance, they can see an A from an air, they know where to stay and where to avoid. And the racing agencies don't do that. Forbes only certifies four and five star. There's no one star or two star, three star. They're just focused on that narrow niche of four and five star hotels. AAA's a great certification. There's 26,000 hotels that are certified, but all the Americas and the Caribbean, the European coverage. So we are kind of different in that, number one, we focus exclusively on how dog friendly a hotel is in its position, but secondly, we're globally in our coverage and we don't discriminate. We are not just certifying hotels that give us money. We're certifying everybody. And we are doing that to build a truly global data set of pet friendly hotels. It's really valuable data. You know, it helps dog owners choose where to stay. They find it really valuable.
[00:10:46] Susan Barry: What does a hotel have to do or have to offer in order to get the A or A+ rating?
[00:10:53] Guise Bule: It's not one thing, it's, it's the, I mean, the A and A+ rating is a really high rank. And I know it sounds as obvious as it is, but it's the top 7% of hotels globally score that way. The rare I find few ticking all the boxes. And I think all of these hotels have the basics, right? They provide basic amenities, you know, beds, bowls, you know, treats food. So you can just turn up with a dog and be happy. They get access levels right. You know, dogs are pretty much always allowed in their bars, so you can sit and enjoy a drink with your dog in the evening. Nice hotels generally won't let their dog in the restaurant, but they'll provide other alternatives. They'll let you eat in the bar area with your dog from the restaurant menu. You know, they go above and beyond when it comes to services. You might want a break from the regular daily dog walks. They've got you covered. They'll walk your dog for you.
[00:11:03] Susan Barry: Oh wow.
[00:11:03] Guise Bule: They sit your dog for you. You might want to go to a museum while you're in town and they don't let dogs in. So that's really helpful and useful. They go, especially our A ranks and A+ ranks above and beyond that they support canine charities if you pay a pet fee, some of it goes to supporting good causes that focus on dogs.
[00:12:02] Susan Barry: Oh, that's a good idea.
[00:12:03] Guise Bule: Yeah. They provide toys, they provide treats and poop bags and all the things you could want. Handy little maps of dog walking routes around the area, recommendations on the local bars and restaurants. They generally go above and beyond. They're fantastic on weight limits. Most hotels are pet-friendly and if you turn up with a tiny dog, but if you turn up with a Labrador, they're not, you know, undermines their whole claims of being pet friendly. Good dog friendly hotels don't do that, they don’t discriminate on your dog because he weighs more than 20 pounds. They genuinely extend their hospitality to all dogs. And finally, fees, good dog-friendly hotels at that level, they're not just extorting attacks out of you, 'cause you have the audacity to arrive with a dog. They're providing a whole lot in return for the pet fee they often charge. And that's what really makes them stand out. It's the excellence across the board.
[00:12:56] Susan Barry: Does having a pet fee work against a hotel in terms of their rating? Or is that of par for the course?
[00:13:05] Guise Bule: Oh, well, it's par for the course generally, I mean. Many of our A+ ranked hotels let dogs stay for free. They're typically very expensive, ultra luxury hotel segment. Like properties, you are already paying an enormous fortune to stay there. You know, they, they don't want surprise garish you 'cause you're turning up with a dog. They just wanna give you hospitality. We do penalize hotels, very slightly. A couple of points for charging a dog fee because no dog owner likes it. You wouldn't charge a child if I turned up with a baby.
[00:13:36] Susan Barry: Can you imagine? That would be kind of hilarious though.
[00:13:39] Guise Bule: Yeah, but here's the thing - most hotels charge a dog fee. It hurts a hotel when a dog owner arrives, they call it a cleaning fee. And they give you, they give you a bowl, you know, so you can comfortably feed and water your dog in the room. They won't let you in the bar or restaurant. Dog owners don't mind paying fees as long as there's access, as long as they receive genuine hospitality in return. So it's a funny one, the fees, but our research indicates dog owners are happy to pay a fee for a great dog friendly hotel. And that's, that's wonderful. You know, good service costs money.
[00:14:10] Susan Barry: The way that you and I met is because I was seeing some of your reviews on LinkedIn and they were making me crack up laughing because they're very straightforward, very to the point. I don't think deliberately funny but funny in that they don't dance around the issue, like you just cut straight to the point. In other words, you are not afraid to be critical in your reviews. And we've talked about this before, but that is quite a contrast I think, to a lot of sort of hospitality, travel media, the way that they approach it. Why do you think that the industry is sometimes reluctant to be straightforward as you are?
[00:14:54] Guise Bule: Let me just address the first part of that question. Our first commitment is to a dog owner seeking reliable information. Building trust with them means being honest dog owners really appreciate honesty and that means highlighting excellence where it exists, but also pointing out shortcomings or misleading pet friendly claims when we see them. Our credibility with dog owners depends on that straightforward language, those data back assessments, you know, whether they are positive or negative. And dog owners really, really appreciates our reviews. I think, I think they're very used to being bombarded by marketing from hotels, very few commentators and analysts in the hotel space actively criticize any hotel. So we are a breath of fresh air for these dog owners.
We're actually helping them understand which hotels will best meet their needs, and that's like, wow, nobody else does that. You know? And, and we'll call you out if you're a D rating, we’ll explain why dog owners should look somewhere else. That's what dog owners want to know. They want to know not just where to stay, but where to avoid so they don't have a bad guest experience. And hotels might not like that. You know, our A’s, B’s and C’s, they often really appreciate their ranks because suddenly they can differentiate in a very cluttered pet friendly space. But the D’s and F ranks really don't appreciate it. You know, they're not used to being criticized in the way they offer hospitality. But like I say, dog owners really appreciate it and so did the A's and Bs rank. They really appreciate being set apart and above lesser performing hotels, you know, um, it validates the extra work and effort they put from being so dog friendly. So it depends on who you ask, but um, yeah, we're not afraid to be critical with our reviews, no.
[00:16:34] Susan Barry: I think it gets back to something you said earlier, which is that you are not charging hotels to be ranked and reviewed, and the hotel isn't your customer, the dog owner is your customer, whereas maybe with some of these other sources, the hotel is the customers, they have to be a little bit more, uh, subtle?
[00:16:56] Guise Bule: No, the hotels are our customers. Hotels are our customers. So hotels subscribe to our standard and we don't charge hotels to rank and review them. We re-rank and re-review any hotel when they change anything for free, always. Hotels subscribe to be able to beautify their custom images. Enrich them with direct booking links rather than OTA links so they can generate commission free direct bookings. That's what we do really well. Generate commission free direct bookings for the world's best dog friendly hotels for high value dog owners. So, you know, subscribing to us lets you, it unlocks that goodness. It unlocks the ability to have a handwritten review rather than an AI written review. You know, which does make difference. You know, the AI is very objective. You can be much more romantic in the way you, if you're inclined that way. We also provide subscribers with competitive intelligence so they can see what all the other hotels in their city are doing, and they can use that as a benchmark against their own efforts. It unlocks a wonderful amount of intelligence, transparency, and visibility into the way we rank and score hotels. They can see exactly where they're getting points and where they're losing an opportunity to score points. And that's why hotel subscribe to our standard. But we're really happy to certify, rank everybody for free, because we want that data. We're the only, you know, company on the planet with the data that helps dog owners choose where to stay and where to avoid. You know that granular, accurate information on these hotels.
[00:18:30] Susan Barry: We like to make sure that our listeners come away from every single episode of Top Floor with some practical, specific tips, ideas to try either in their hotel, in their personal life, in their travels. What advice would you give a dog owner who is looking to book a hotel stay right now?
[00:18:51] Guise Bule: I'd advise them to look beyond the words pet friendly and call the hotel. If you're thinking about staying at a hotel and you see their, their pet friendly, call them up. Ask them about their restrictions, where you can and can't go. If you can leave the dog on in the room on its own, if you want to pop out and what their fees are. You also kind of want to check the surrounding area, access to green space is really, really convenient for quick call to nature. But yeah, in order to really choose a good dog for hotel, you need to make some calls or use rochdog.com. Use our dog friendly directory, right? Come to us 'cause we've done that work for you.
[00:19:28] Susan Barry: Cut to the chase.
[00:19:29] Guise Bule: You need to call hotels up and ask them questions in order to get a really good picture. You know, because dog owners have needs and requirements and you need to ask.
[00:19:38] Susan Barry: Are there any small changes that a hotel could make right now that would have maybe an outsized impact on their dog friendliness score?
[00:19:49] Guise Bule: Absolutely, provide a space where a dog owner can have a drink and have a bite to eat with their dog, even if it's on a terrace. And let dogs in your bar. Dog owners love to socialize with their dog and be sat there and having a drink with their dog. Provide basic amenities. When the dog owner arrives, give them a food and water bowl. If they want to take those bowls with them, that's fine. They can buy them. Let them know. Most of my customers make a fortune selling cute. Will tell you, but guests steal them, we don't like to provide them. And I say no, they bought them. You have to bill them! But provide basic amenities, treats on reception, have some dog food available, even if your chef's not making it in case a guest runs out. I've been often caught without dog food and had to order a place of ham with no dressing and things like that, you know? So it's just a basic amities, access and making sure that the dog owners not too restrictive when they come. It's fine not to let dogs in your restaurant, but provide them with alternatives so when they come to your hotel, they're able to really enjoy your hotel with their dog when they stay. Rather than having to just leave it in the room or have to leave the hotel to eat or drink. You know you want them there. You want spending money. And they will spend money. If you let them on their dogs, they'll buy $30 Chef design plates of dog food. I did. Lots of us do.
[00:21:05] Susan Barry: Oh, that's so cool. What a good idea.
[00:21:08] Guise Bule: Yeah! Premier hotels make loads of revenue from dog owners.
[00:21:10] Susan Barry: I was thinking dog mocktails or something, you know what I mean? Or like, how places will have the little dog ice creams? Which I've almost accidentally bought a hundred different times, but that is a personal problem. So we have reached the fortune telling portion of our show. Now you are gonna predict the future and we will see if you got it right. What is a prediction you have about the future of pet friendly travel and hotel certifications?
[00:21:38] Guise Bule: I'm perhaps a little bit biased, stake the rest of my career on it, but I think the future is an increased demand for verification and personalization. A demand for verified dog friendliness is exploding. You know, travelers are tired of ambiguity. They want hotels they know they're gonna have a good time. They'll seek out trusted specifications like the Roch Standard. Hotels increasingly use dog friendliness, not just as an amenity, but as a core of their brand identity. You know, they'll use that in their marketing to attract loyal, high-value dog owners who increase their, you know, their revenue, their room revenue rates. You could expect more personalization, hotels offering tailored dog menus, activity packages, and partnerships with local pet services. You can expect all of that and more. People are increasingly travel with their dogs and they increasingly see them as family. So we'll begin to see hotels accept that reality too. It's not just a pet, it's part of our family. Family deserves genuine hospitality.
[00:22:37] Susan Barry: If you could wave a magic wand and change just one thing about the hotel industry's approach to pet travelers, what would it be? Because I know you have a litany, I'm sure you have a long list. So what's the number one magic wand moment?
[00:22:55] Guise Bule: Recognize dogs as family. And that means moving beyond just allowing dogs to actively welcoming them as part of the guest family. And that, you know, includes providing appropriate I amenities, fair access, clear policies and staff trainings to reflect that. Essentially treat dogs comfort and safety at the same level of care, you know, and professionalism you give to any other guest. That's what I’d wave my magic wand for.
[00:23:19] Susan Barry: Okay, folks, before we tell Guise goodbye, we are going to head down to the loading dock where all of the best stories get told.
Elevator voice announces, “Going down.”
[00:23:33] Susan Barry: This time, I am going to tell Guise a story about traveling with my pets. When I first moved to Atlanta, I moved here to open a hotel that was in downtown Atlanta. It wasn't built yet. And our house wasn't ready yet. So I lived in a sister hotel of the hotel that I was opening and had my yellow lab with me. Her name was Savannah and at this time I think she was maybe six months old, like a little baby puppy. She had never been in a hotel before. This was her first hotel stay, and it was her first time ever in an elevator. And so when it was time for Savannah to go potty, she thought that the elevator was outside. So we had many very fragrant elevator rides in this million story hotel. I have never told anyone that this happened because at the time I was afraid I was gonna get fired for letting my dog go crazy. But she was just a baby. She didn't know what to do.
[00:24:51] Guise Bule: She was a puppy.
[00:24:53] Susan Barry: Exactly. Has something like that ever happened to you traveling with your dog?
[00:24:56] Guise Bule: Well, you know, I can think back to when one of my chocolate Labrador had puppies. And we were in Spain at the time, and we checked into this wonderful five star hotel right in the center of Bilbao. I can't quite remember what it was called, but the staff loved our puppies. We arrived with a basket of puppies and my labrador.
[00:25:14] Susan Barry: How many puppies were there?
[00:25:15] Guise Bule: There were seven puppies in my basket.
[00:25:16] Susan Barry: Oh my God.
[00:25:17] Guise Bule: They were tiny. And we obviously got one of the big, you know, penthouse rooms with a big balcony. The hotel staff were very cool about the whole thing. They loved the puppies that get popping around to play with them. You know, if the room service came, they would stay and play with them, the cleaners were happy to walk into the room. It was fantastic. We went out one night and we came back to the hotel and the reception said, your dog's in the corridor. She won't let anyone move up the corridor. And my dog had somehow gotten out of the room and to protect her puppies in the bedroom stood at the hall of the corridor and was barking at guests trying to get to their rooms. We arrived just as this started to happen - thankfully! She wasn't being aggressive, but she was just sat there barking. No, you can't come down this corridor. My babies are there. We had to tell her no, they're allowed to walk by our room.
[00:26:07] Susan Barry: That is so crazy. I wish that I had a basket of seven chocolate lab puppies sitting here with me right now. Guise Bule, thank you so much for being here. I know that our listeners have great ideas to take back to their hotels for dog friendliness, and I really appreciate you riding with us to the top floor.
[00:26:28] Guise Bule: Thank you so much for having me on, Susan. It's a real pleasure.
[00:26:31] Susan Barry: Thanks for listening. You can find the show notes at topfloorpodcast.com/episode/195. Jonathan Albano is our editor, producer, and all around Genius. He even wrote and performed our theme song with vocals by Cameron Albano. You can subscribe to Top Floor on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen and your rating or review will go a long way in helping us give you more of what you like.
[00:27:07] Narrator: Thanks for listening to the Top Floor Podcast at www.topfloorpodcast.com. Have a hospitality marketing question? Reach us at 8504049630 to be featured in a future episode.